Spell Research in SoF

[Ngreth Thergn]

That was a recent change. last week in a meeting I asked about it, and the response was that things like the "missions" for spells was OK.

The ones that are for very SPECIFIC spells (like Xanthe earring, and other similar quests for SPECIFIC spells) will NOT be made.

The missions are only "semi-specific" in that each class gets their own thing for it, not a single specific one named spell.

But it is such a recent change that there is no way I have time to get it in.

[olhoss]

Should I start the nagging and whining to get the TSS spells researchable now or would you recommend starting a whole new thread for that?

[Nindayil]

from: Artisans Way (Tradeskill Discussion)
"I don't see how this helps...

you are probably stills tuck with a large amount of useless items... If there are no longer drops to complete any partials you have... those partials will never be used... sure some of your "complete" stuff could be used... but use them in the next two months...

Leaving access to the old recipes implies some minimal level of support for them, and more and more I will start getting bugs because "X doesn't drop anymore... but the recipe is still there" and more and more dissatisfied people because I am ignoring them."

Well we could always use those old pages/items to make Celestial Essences...

Only 1 more post to go...

[Ngreth Thergn]

Well, the CE drops will stay because they have a use. Any drop that has a use other than research stays and continues to drop. It just probably will not spread past where it is.

[Nindayil]

I was kindof joking in my other post since most old time researchers used to cringe at the thought of someone taking a 'rare drop' page and creating a CE out of it to save bag space while grouped in a remote zone.
In actuality it looks like a bunch of the old pages and research stuff can be made into CE (counted about 65 of them). Since Scent of Marr is vendor sold in PoK and is a CE recipie the easiest thing would be to amend the CE formula to a single component = "Scent of Marr" and pave the way to eliminating the old stuff.

[vwdiesel]

I assume these changes will appear on Test before the expansion comes out. If so, can you give a bit of warning before they appear on Test, so I can make sure and finish up with my current stash before it becomes obsolete? Thanks!

[Maevenniia]

I assume these changes will appear on Test before the expansion comes out. If so, can you give a bit of warning before they appear on Test, so I can make sure and finish up with my current stash before it becomes obsolete? Thanks!

Don't assume. The post says these changes are going live with the SoF expansion, they may or may not be rolled out to Test server in the meanwhile, the recipes are already being tested on Beta though.

This IS your warning, these changes will go live with the SoF expansion - start using up your stash now, don't wait 'til the last minute.

[Ngreth Thergn]

I don't disable things until the last minute for good reason. I don't want the disabling going live in an emergency patch of some sort before the new stuff comes in.

The new recipes are part of SoF therefore are being tested on Beta. There are folks testing them now, I have seen posts on the beta forums By "Part of SoF" I mean it is coming out with it. These will not be expansion restricted.

[Vivamort]

So will the following old research items remain, as they are used in a quest?
Sage's Box of Research- PoK quest from any of the 3 sages there. One of the Sages offers a quest based on combining "old" research items.

Combine: Words of Possession, Rune of the Combine
Result: Word of Combine
Trade: Sage's Apprentice Cap, with 5 charges of Phantom Chain

Combine: Words of Duress, Rune of Sorcery
Result: Word of Sorcery
Trade: Twisted Talisman, with 5 charges of Obscure

Combine: Words of the Suffering, Rune of the Helix
Result: Word of Helix
Trade: Three Ringed Hoop, with 5 charges of Summon Twisted Ring

Combine: Words of Incarceration, Rune of the Inverse
Result: Word of Inverse
Trade: Joined Signet, with 5 charges of Insight

Combine: Words of Bondage, Rune of Impetus
Result: Word of Impetus
Trade: Apprentice's Notebook, with 5 charges of Charisma

Just want to make sure one of my favorite quests doesn't fall to the axe by having the 5 words and 5 runes stop dropping if possible.

Thanks

[Ngreth Thergn]

So will the following old research items remain, as they are used in a quest?
Sage's Box of Research- PoK quest from any of the 3 sages there. One of the Sages offers a quest based on combining "old" research items.

Combine: Words of Possession, Rune of the Combine
Result: Word of Combine
Trade: Sage's Apprentice Cap, with 5 charges of Phantom Chain

Combine: Words of Duress, Rune of Sorcery
Result: Word of Sorcery
Trade: Twisted Talisman, with 5 charges of Obscure

Combine: Words of the Suffering, Rune of the Helix
Result: Word of Helix
Trade: Three Ringed Hoop, with 5 charges of Summon Twisted Ring

Combine: Words of Incarceration, Rune of the Inverse
Result: Word of Inverse
Trade: Joined Signet, with 5 charges of Insight

Combine: Words of Bondage, Rune of Impetus
Result: Word of Impetus
Trade: Apprentice's Notebook, with 5 charges of Charisma

Just want to make sure one of my favorite quests doesn't fall to the axe by having the 5 words and 5 runes stop dropping if possible.

Thanks

I will mark it to check.

[Kross]

i like to do spell research on my necro, but i do not want or expect to be able to research raid drop spells so soon after they have went live. to be honest, i don't think players should be able to research rank 3's ever. its a raid drop, we can't research ancient spells from any expansion, why should we be able to make rank 3's? same with quest spells, they are quested...keep the game fun and do it yourself instead of buy every spell you will ever need from the bazaar.

i can't see the point of rk 3 spells being made, to sell? well i don't remotely do any farming for tradeskill stuff normally, i never farm things to sell in the bazaar. i xp and get items and thats about it, and i have more plat than i know what to do with.

i think the new tradeskills are going to be very interesting, i just hope i can use up all my spell research supplies before the patch goes live

[Kadath]

You really need to carefully consider across all classes for this; are, for instance, the spell arc spells from DoD considered to be 'quest' spells that shouldn't be researchable? That would cut a large swathe through the 68-70 spells for most casters. In particular, mages would really get the shaft being effectively unable to get Raging Servant, which back in DoD was somethign they could routinely expect to get, but is now pretty tough to get a group for - and yet it effectively defines their damage output right up to 75 - when it is upgraded by a vendor purchaseable spell, requiring ally faction - which in turn is going to become an interesting proposition, although that will become a subject for a later discussion.

[Kross]

You really need to carefully consider across all classes for this; are, for instance, the spell arc spells from DoD considered to be 'quest' spells that shouldn't be researchable? That would cut a large swathe through the 68-70 spells for most casters. In particular, mages would really get the shaft being effectively unable to get Raging Servant, which back in DoD was somethign they could routinely expect to get, but is now pretty tough to get a group for - and yet it effectively defines their damage output right up to 75 - when it is upgraded by a vendor purchaseable spell, requiring ally faction - which in turn is going to become an interesting proposition, although that will become a subject for a later discussion.

thats exactly what i mean. i think the dod spell missions are fine how they are and they should only be gotten that way. with each expansion those quests get easier and easier. heck i just 3 boxed most of them the last week for a friend.

a necro recieves corath venom at 69 and dreadpyre at 70, those spells are still awesome to date with the 71+ dots they get. its called everQUEST not everBUYPLATONEBAY to get your spells

lol i think eq could use more quested content like dod's. good quests, cursor loot, good experience, and good experience for the player to learn how to group better.

[Eanelder]

thats exactly what i mean. I think the dod spell missions are fine how they are and they should only be gotten that way. with each expansion those quests get easier and easier. heck i just 3 boxed most of them the last week for a friend.

a necro recieves corath venom at 69 and dreadpyre at 70, those spells are still awesome to date with the 71+ dots they get. its called everQUEST not everBUYPLATONEBAY to get your spells

lol i think eq could use more quested content like dod's. good quests, cursor loot, good experience, and good experience for the player to learn how to group better.

Post like this just upset me!

"I can three box, so quest missions are easy therefore everyone should have to do them that way". Well im sorry everyone does NOT 3 box. Unless you want to volunteer to do these spell missions for every new toon to EQ, or everyone who wants to create an alt?

My concern with the quested spells such as DoDh and PoR are that they harder and harder to get a group for the more expansions come out. People complete the content once and never go back, unless of course you can 3 box.

Heck, Im in a solteris guild, VERY well geared and I belong to a fellowship with 2 similarly geared mages, and several CASUAL / NEW players. I've been trying to get the casual players their lvl 70 DoDh spell all summer, but due to schedules and timing, we've managed to complete a whopping 2 missions. Not becuase of difficulty, simply because of schedules and other commitments. The point is researching spells should benefit newer / casual players, especially when they're spells like the mages Rampaging Servent which is class altering and key to their DPS, and is NOT "readily" accessible at any level currently.

As for Rank 3's being researchable, without them research will have no purpose past lvl 70, as all Rank 1's will be available off a vendor, and the difference between Rank 1 and 2 are VERY minor. Any casual / alt player will buy rank 1 and be happy, knowing that in 5 levels they will just as easily aquire a spell better then rank 3 anyways. However, being able to buy rank 3 directly might be more appealing, especially if the RK 3 spells which were NOT available through rune turn ins also become available, which I have already suggested.

Im not saying Rank 3s have to be easy or common to make, but they should be available. Im not even saying they should be available when the expansion comes out, BUT I do believe that makes the most sense.

[TessVaz]

If the quested spells end up being researchable, I strongly hope that melee tomes will become researchable as well.

Since the Gates of Discord expansion melee skills have been obtained in exactly the same way as spells, via runes or quests. Since the tomes from runes only give one skill per level, it's not too difficult to collect one of each type and there hasn't been too much complaining yet. But if spells gained from group quests (DoD mission arcs, PoR quests) become researchable, those who argue about the difficulty of getting help for these quests will be appeased while pure melee classes (WAR, ROG, BER, MNK) will be left behind again, with the situation multiplied.

Many of these skills are extremely useful and important, with few direct upgrades, and even fewer lateral equivalents.

I apologize if this is the post that keeps quested spells from being researchable. I would be happy, however, if this ends up bringing researchable melee skills closer to the light of Norrath.

Disclaimer: I have neither read up on any arguments about researching melee skills on the Sony boards, nor felt the need to look for them. However, I didn't notice any in the Spell Research section at this site. Feel free to bash me into the ground as necessary.