Research Bottleneck

[Nolrog]

A while back, I recall someone telling me that the availability of the parchement drops was a bottle neck for people doing research. Is this still the case? If so, I will submit this as the QotW (Question of the Week.)

Thanks,

Nol

[Zacatac]

It may be server dependant. Currently, I have no problems buying what I need in bazaar on my server.

There is no possible way a single player, or even a group of players, could come up with all the parchments necessary for someone to get to 300 skill.

You must buy them in the bazaar, so you are stuck with whatever the rest of the server is sellling them for. And if the general population were to stop doing DoD content (i.e. next expansion comes out), then you are stuck with no supplies.

[Wyvernwill]

Parchments also drop in PoR which does help. However, with the new expansion coming out, if they do not add the 61-65 parchments to the loot tables, we are going to run into some serious issues with trying to find them.

[filobeto]

Parchments also drop in PoR which does help. However, with the new expansion coming out, if they do not add the 61-65 parchments to the loot tables, we are going to run into some serious issues with trying to find them.

/agree

Unless of course they change their mind and allow the melee tombs to be researched, but require a drop from the new expansion OR much like they did with the 66-70 spell runes, a new item drops that replaces the parchments all together. But the later is just silly, just like the Shadowspine runes.

I wonder if they will add the ability to research 66-70 spells, that could cause some issues with the spell turn-in / ordering of the results though. Would still be nice to research those in the upcoming expansion, 3 expansions later.

[Eanelder]

There is no possible way a single player, or even a group of players, could come up with all the parchments necessary for someone to get to 300 skill.

Very true ... unlike other tradeskills, you cant "farm" several of the ingredients necessary for the combines to skill up.

You really cant go to a camp and "farm" parchments, and you sure as heck cant farm specific level parchements. Same for crystalized sulfur .... i dont know of any camp that drops them in large quantity, but they are on so many mobs and drop often enough that there is generally a large enough supply at a reasonable price in the baz.

So yes, I would say theres a bit of a bottle neck for research.

[Nolrog]

Parchments also drop in PoR which does help. However, with the new expansion coming out, if they do not add the 61-65 parchments to the loot tables, we are going to run into some serious issues with trying to find them.

This is a different issue though. It's not a current bottle neck, but a future one caused by the (presumed) flood of players out of the DoD/PoR zones and into the TSS zones.

How would you describe the bottle neck? I want to submit a question, but I'm not sure I have a good handle on the problem, so I can't word a question appropriately (feel free to propose one, and I'll submit it.)

[Zacatac]

How about something like this?

Rumor has it the new expansion will introduce further advancements into the Spell Research tradeskill. Can we have someone confirm that the DoD-type parchments will also drop in TSS? In order for those parchments to be available in large enough quantities, spell researchers must rely on the entire population of the server to help hunt mobs that drop those parchments (and sell them in bazaar). If people move away from DoD/PoR, the supply (which is already a bit low) will become an insurmountable bottleneck.

Another question would be --"Will there be an alternate path to 300 that does not include the DoD parchments as a necessary ingredient?"

[filobeto]

How would you describe the bottle neck? I want to submit a question, but I'm not sure I have a good handle on the problem, so I can't word a question appropriately (feel free to propose one, and I'll submit it.)

The bottle neck is caused by there only being 4 components for >243 research.

Grubby Fine Parchment - used in spells with a triv. of 262 (level 62 spells)
Shabby Velium Parchment - used in spells with a triv. of 292 (level 63 spells)
Grimmy Fine Parchment - used in spells with a triv. of 322 (level 64 spells)
Smuged Runic Parchment - used in spells with a triv. of 351 (level 65 spells)

Yes, each component can make a ton of different spells, but they all have the same related trivial of the 4 components (if that is understandable). I can use the Grubby Fine Parchment to make 100s of different spells, but I still need the 1 item - Grubby Fine Parchment - to make any of them.....thus the bottle neck.

When skilled to 292, there are only 2 options for advancing to 300. Any spell that uses Grimmy Fine or Smuged Runic.

See the bottleneck?

And for the record, it's not a complaint - I enjoy the research path as it currently stands.

[Zacatac]

When skilled to 292, there are only 2 options for advancing to 300. Any spell that uses Grimmy Fine or Smuged Runic.

See the bottleneck?

Exactly. And I can go into the bazaar right now and buy maybe 20 of them, and that's all there is for sale. So the next person has to wait for the server in general to "restock" with more parchments. (And yes, I have done that before where I bought every single one for sale).

Those parchments are the ONLY way to 300. So the delicate balance of supply and demand hinges upon those items being available, or else the whole tradeskill path will become nullified. Again, there is no way for a player to go farm enough of these. It's like saying "go get 500 metallic drake scales" to skill up smithing.

[Frontallobe]

Posting a question to question of the week is fine, but I think our chances of getting an answer are a lot better if Ngreth just posts on this thread.

[Misery5450]

I find parchments to be a huge bottleneck.

Like most trades if you dont get in at the ground floor you wont make money, but unlike other trades you can not skill up effectively after that initial blitz. Either you already skilled up, or you have to hope that future expansions will fill the void and allow for growth.

Parchments are rare even in the Baz. When you do find them they are few, and they are sold for well over what the spell will sell for. Thats the market, and markets should be left alone - but it does reflect a supply problem.

I dont mind farming, but unlike pelts or whatever there is nothing reliable to hunt for them. I have been doing 68.4's chasing down the shrink ear, and with clearing the zone in 2-3 hours i never walk away with more than 5 parchments. And the killer being at least 2 of those are always "used parchments" which are useless in skilling up.

The combine containers should be revamped as well. Too much clutter needing 2-3 different containers from previous expansions on top of all the other issues surrounding research.

Its overwhelming. Its not fun. Its not even relaxing, like many of the other trades can be if you have the proper frame of mind.

It sucks when your about to do a combine, after collecting oodles of stuff from pok AND corathus - only to figure out one of your subcombines requires you to run to abysmal for some obscure component as well.

It stresses me out just writing this.

I think research definitly needs to be streamlined. Maybe they dont want one-stop shopping, but they can do alot better than what is in place now, and I think they should.

This topic is a reasonable one for this weeks question.

[Mahlig]

I have not done the run to 300 yet (well, in any skill other than Baking and Brewing), so maybe I am not qualified to make this statement, but I have vendormined a LOT of parchments. So many people sell them to NPCs that it is not funny. I have found them (in quantities of 10 or more) in Undershore and in PoK...on more than one occassion. I just don't think the general public thinks there is a need for them and they don't loot them. I think the drop rate is plenty high enough.

I 3-box the 69.1 mission (yeah, I am one of those) and get several 3-5 parchments per mission. It takes me roughly 2-3 hours to do it, but I am not the most adept 3-boxer. A friend also does it because it is easy exp and not stressful. If I can get 3-5 every 2-3 hours (there is no lockout on this), then farming them should not be a problem...even for the casual gamer.

[Bobaten]

While I certainly don't know for sure, the existance of the 10 hide solutions that accidently went live makes me think there will be alternate combines for 61-65 spells, along with the 66-70 spells. Of course it could be 66-75 spells, but either way it will add more things to make on the way to 300.

[Misery5450]

If I can get 3-5 every 2-3 hours (there is no lockout on this), then farming them should not be a problem...even for the casual gamer.

Using your numbers and the on-site calculator, I came up with needing roughly 1000 parchments to hit 300 from 243.

Using your low estimate 5 drops in 2 hours, that equals 400 hours of straight parchment farming.

This doesnt even take into account that you need to have the right parchments. 3/5 having limited use.

That is way out of whack, even compared to tailoring which assuming 20 pelts per hour would require about 200 hours of othmir farming to hit 300 from 250.

Edits: Corrected bad math

[Zacatac]

Only the 63, 64, and 65 parchments are important to the discussion of getting to 300. If you are saying "I vendor mine lots of them" or " I get 5 parchments every 2 hours", make sure you are NOT counting the Used and Grubby parchments.

Smudged Runic, Grimey, and Shabby are the only ones that really count. And Shabby trivials at 292, so in my case even those are no use now.