Do different Combines have different Skill-ups?

[K.Rool]

Title has it -do, for exampe (totally, since 400 combines, stuck at 191 skill), Casserole Dishes have the same pot. Skill-up as Opal Encrusted Steins? If not, is it only because of the different trivial? So would 2 items, same triv, but different recipe, poss. have different skill-up rates?

Or is it always the same, and i just have to look for mones/combine and time/cambine?

[Velurian]

No one is entirely sure; the formulas for skillups are still something of a mystery. There appear (at least to me) to be two main factors in determining the likelihood of getting a skillup:

-- your intelligence or wisdom (whichever is higher). If you don't have 255 in one of these, see about buying yourself a set of gear to get yourself there. You're a chanter, so INT is almost certainly what you'll want to go for.
-- your success rate. It appears that you're more likely to get a skillup on a successful combine, so you want to work on items, as much as is practical, that have trivial levels close to your current skill. You've already got this covered, working on casserole dishes.

Some people think that there are other factors; I tend to think it's just these. And sometimes the RNG is just plain mean. :twisted: But if you get your INT up, the skillups will come.

[Obina]

Success drives skill-ups? Not much!

Personnaly, I remain unconvinced on the success thing. I've seen some of the statistical data provided, but remain unconvinced. That effect, if it is there, is small.

I behave on the basis that 1) Wis/Int overrides; 2) There are hell levels. Pottery was hard (for me) in the 180's and again around 198. And skill-ups were easier from 220 to 230 than from 200 to 210.

This later theory helps me keep going. If I'm stuck at a level, it gives me comport to know it may be easier later!

And since I'm not worried about trivials (for skill ups), I focus on what I feel like making based on cost, chance of getting it made, selling in bazaar, and farming time (Heavy Clay). For me that means as well as churning out Star Ruby ES, I make some crucibles, Faithstones, and Golden Idols. This way, my mule has a lot of different stuff to sell, and I stay amused.

[Unmei]

Yup

Obina is wise. I think that casserole dishes are regarded as a slow source of skill ups for two reasons: #1 They require three times as many combines per skill up because you have to make those ****able ceramic linings first. #2 They are generally done in the 188-199 range, which is, by all reports, a difficult range to get skillups in regardless of the skill.

Also, I would like to call upon Occam's Razor here, and cite that, when no other proof exists, the simplest solution (that all combines offer the same chance of skillups, with int/wis and skill level being equal) is most likely the correct one. I wish to supplement this with the Programmer's Apathy Axiom which is to say that a programmer will tend to code for something in the fashion that requires the least work - in this case, that means NOT coding in special chances of skillups for hundreds of different recipes.

[Viken]

I don't have the quote but it was a developer that said you have better chance to skill up on a success, and I've noticed it myself.

[Quesci]

I don't have the quote but it was a developer that said you have better chance to skill up on a success, and I've noticed it myself.

I certainly can't argue against your own experience, but could it be that you notice more skill increases on success because you get more success?

Most of us do combines that don't fail too often, simply for the economic factors (both selling successes to a merchant and the fact that higher triv itemsa re more expensive to combine). If you are using a geerlok and combining close to your trivial -- for example, the way jewelers work -- you can expect 5% failures.

In that case, if 19 skillups are on successes for every skillup on a failure, then they are equivalent in likelihood. 19:1 is a pretty high ratio and easily explains the belief that skill increases are more likely on a success.

The easy way to test is to get two identical characters and have one make medium bowls from 0 to 122. Count the number of combines. Then start a new character with the exact same stats and have him do skewers to 21, clay jars to 41, pots to 56, smokers to 82, small bowls to 102, pie tins to 115, and medium bowls to 122. Count the number of combines and compare.

[Unmei]

Feel free to test that, but I am content to maintain that the whole "more skillups on successes" thing is all in your head. Heck, for a time when my rogue was working on fletching, I swore I had more chance of skillup on a failure.

[BuilderOfCastles]

I don't have the quote but it was a developer that said you have better chance to skill up on a success, and I've noticed it myself.

I have never seen an EQ developer make such a quote.
On these boards, I have seen mathematicians and programmers (not Sony) run statistics on combine numbers / successes.

My feeling on the issue is that, with the pRNG being streaky, that you are likely to get a success with a skillup. In other words, you are likely to get two high numbers back to back.

[EnragedFilia]

i agree with the thing about programmer apathy, but the thing is, even if each recipe isnt unique in some way, the inherent and necessary complexity of the equation that goes off when you click combine could probably produce the same effect. if that equation is complex enough, given the way the RNG appears to like to act, almost any effect you could name is possible.

the answer to the original question, therefore is: nobody knows, and it probably doesnt matter much.

[Temperance EM]

to add to the confusion, i think the recipe for a trade combine includes these numbers:

* maximum skill offered (trivial level)
* possibility for success
* possibility for skill advance

of course with EQ:PoP ( ie smith / brew of 220 ) there will also be

* prerequisite effective skill level

...

i know that even a skill 1 baker has chances of success and skill up making fish rolls just as a trophy wielding brewer can have a bad streak making soda water ( hi, that would be me ). true, i will concede to Occum and the apathetic progremmer, but i am fairly confidant that these two multipliers ( success and skill adv ) are applied -- even if the multipliers are set to 1 on most recipes.