Elemental pottery lacking?

[Jaradis Stormcaller]

Wandor, I'm betting your guild is the top guild on Terris Thule correct? And that you had little to no competition for any zones for a long time? And you farmed NToV, Ssra, and VT fairly unchallenged for a long time?

There are quite a few servers out there with 3-5 guilds in VT as well as multiple Elemental enabled guilds. Meaning the quantity of loot that a guild can get on those servers is much more limited than a guild with free reign over the top end zones. For those guilds these tradeskill items are a way to get additional gear that isn't normally available. They can't just "easily" go get better gear with the same focuses cause it's all dead.

[panamon]

Edit: Not worth it.

[Cantatus]

Ok, this thread is getting off track. If you wish to discuss the usefulness of these items, go for it. If you want to insult each other, take it elsewhere (ie not this board). This thread is dancing on the edge of being locked.

Thanks,
Cantatus

[Yalum]

You two are completely ignoring the vast majority of people, the ones who can't get into the elemental planes or kill the Tier 3 bosses right now. You may be banking your products for alts and apps right now, but I can't even come close to meeting the demand from my friends with the components that are hitting the bazaar right now. And even without the focus effect, these are some of the very best droppable range items in the game right now.

[Wandor]

Jaradis you are correct in that we currently enjoy a monopoly in the elemental planes, but when PoP released there where at least 3 guilds killing Aten and 8-10 that could clear Ssra minus the Emp. But even on a server with multiple tier 4 guilds, there are 4 elemental planes so everyone should be able to farm at least one of them. The mini named and ring events in each of the elementals drop very nice items and they all have a fairly fast respawn. The loot tables are also pretty shallow, so it's not hard to farm a particular mob to get a particularlly good item. Tethered air cape, Shimmering Sleeves of Flame, Shining Crimson Shawl, Mantle of Flame Wisdom and many others are all common drops with the focus you can get from pottery items.

I am not disputing that the effect is nice to have (I use the ID4 item myself), I am saying that the stats are a little low in comparison to other elemental trade skill items. I had to bag a better range item I got in Velious just to get the effect, as soon as I get any other ID4 item (all ID4 items have better stats) the Incence Burned gets tossed.

If you take a look at some other items being made with elemental drops, you would have to look to VT or Ssra bosses to get an upgrade. The items are that good.

The elemental bows in particular are good enough that there are very few bows worth going back to farm once you get your melees equiped with these.

The Cloudy ring of pneumatic force, you would have to go to VT/Ssra or tier 3 bosses to get a better ring for a priest class.

There is only 1 set of plate legs with more HP than the Farwater plate greaves - the elemental greaves. They also have good AC and some STA. By far one of the most balanced and best all around plate legs in the game.

To get an upgrade for a Robe of Immaculate Air, you are killing Aten, Emp, or Xegony (elemental robes not found yet).

On the other hand, you can get an upgrade to any of the elemental pottery items from Plane of Fear, Plane of Hate, Temple of Veeshan, Sleepers Tomb, Rhag 1, Grieg, Itraer Vius. Those are just the items I can think of off the top of my head that would be better range items (arguably harder to get good range than pri/sec).

The point I am trying to make is that the effect is the only reason someone capable of gathering the components would ever equip one of the pottery items. If the arguement is that the other trade skill items take more hard to get components to make, then increase the number of components needed for the pottery items and raise the stats. These items should be good enough that they should be near the top of the list in quality when compared to other items for their slot. No way should I be able to get a better range item (stats wise) from anything less than a tier 2 boss or VT/Ssra.

[Delores Mulva]

Wandor, you can't split the effect off from the stats and claim that each must be superlative. While the bow from Earth may be this way, not all items should be held to that standard (the bow is bordering on overpowered).

Consider the following simple question: if you were NOT in a raiding guild, where could you get Improved Damage IV, Improved Healing IV, or Mana Preservation IV foci? The pottery items give those focus effects, effects that increase caster power more than stats increases ever could. They also have stats that are pretty good for droppable caster items, and only require two rare drop components on average. The number of rare drops needed compares favourably with tailoring, blows smithing right out of the water, and is worse than jewelcrafting (no elemental JC item has anything BUT stats).

I don't feel these items were meant to be comparable to the normal drops one gets off elemental nameds. That things like the Earth bow are comparable is an error of itemization. I feel they were meant to help supplement drop rates by helping to plug holes in a person's gear, and to provide high-end sellables for the market. And they meet each of these goals.

Delores Mulva
Lotus Cult
Quellious

[Wandor]

I see where you are coming from Delores, and I agree that the bows are bordering on overpowered. But what about all of the other items? The tailoring, JC, and smithing items are equally end game as the bows. In my previous post I gave specific examples how these items are good enough that they are likely upgrades unless you have a VT/Ssra/Elemental item already.

Consider the following simple question: if you were NOT in a raiding guild, where could you get Improved Damage IV, Improved Healing IV, or Mana Preservation IV foci?

Conversely, if you are not in a raiding guild, how are you going to get any of the items to put together an elemental drop? Your server may be the excelption with 4 guilds in the elemental planes, but most servers only have 1 guild that far into PoP. I would venture a guess that on those servers you will not find any of the trade skill items for sale in the bazaar. I know my guild is keeping all trade skill items to gear up guildies.

You have to remember that anyone who has access to elemental trade skill items also has access to elemental mob dropped equipment. It juts seems odd to me that most elemental trade skill items are upgrades unless you already have an elemental drop, all but the pottery items.

I know people argue that the pottery items only take 2 rare drops, and I would argue that getting 2 items to make a single pottery item is as hard as collecting enough components to make a single tailoring/smithing/JC item. Even if they are not, double the amount of components needed to make them and bump the stats to something more reasonable. If the items had 90hp/mana on them, they would not be overshadowed by ST/NToV drops and would be worth keeping as a full time item.

I'll say it again - there is no way that an elemental trade skill item should be easily replaceable by an item from 2/3 expansions ago.

Look at it this way - there are tons of items with some form of mana pres 4. If you have one of these other items, why would you bother equiping the pottery item? You wouldn't because the stats are subpar. Don't look at these items by how great they would be for someone just breaking into NToV - look at them as items that take an entire guild months of effort to be able to make them, and in limited quantities to boot.

[Kemie Dreamshadow]

Excuse me, but planar pottery items take THREE rare drops, not two. You're evidently forgetting the necessary imbue for the gem. I sure count that as a part.

I never see any of the necessary components but stormrider blood for sale in the bazaar on my server. Nor do I get answers to WTB's in the market channel for specific items. The only ones I've made came from lucking out and finding components on vendors, and as soon as they fill up their inventory post-patches and resets, I'm generally SOL.

Kemie Dreamshadow
250 potter/jeweler on Lanys T'Vyl

[panamon]

The mephit blood is far from rare. The other items are significantly more difficult to get.

[Ainyan Dar`Mori]

The point isn't that they aren't good for anyone. Just that they aren't good for the level of the guild doing it. And he's right. Of all the tradeskill items my former guild made (I recently quit EQ), my pottery items were the least prized. I made three air idols and only two were wanted. I never made water because I never got oil of a frog. The one earth went to a druid who had a considerably better range and only wanted it for when he was healing. My one fire went to a wizard, only two mains asked and one twink.

Yet when smithing is done, people jump for the smithed items. Bows are a highly desired commodity. Rings are jumped upon when JC'ers make them. But pottery? Pfft. And after months in all four elemental planes and countless raids, how many idols do I have to show for it? 5. When there's four times as many bows in my guild, several more pieces of smithed armor, and twice as many rings.

Face it. Elemental pottery isn't up to par. Period. It's only good for twinks and alts and selling in bazaar, and it shouldn't be that way. It SHOULD be useful for the people farming the components. And not just for making money.

[Jaradis Stormcaller]

Excuse me, but planar pottery items take THREE rare drops, not two. You're evidently forgetting the necessary imbue for the gem. I sure count that as a part.

Mephit blood is hardly rare. Earth Mephit Blood is the only one that is slightly more difficult since the mobs aren't as easily available, but it is easy enough to get. I have stacks of Air, Fire, and Water Mephit Blood, we just choose not to sell them in the Bazaar.

[Unmei]

ARG

I wrote a long arse post on all the various planar pottery stuffs, and then it got eaten because I had to re-login. =(

Short summary: Yes, elemental stuff seems below par for people who can get elemental drops. First Tier stuff is pretty darn awful after the affliction nerf, with only the Gavel of Justice being close to useful. Second/Third Tier Stuff (Shield of Valor, Rod of Storms, Sword of War) are pretty decent but the only one with what I'd consider good stats is the Shield. I'd like to see the stats on all of these items brought up into line with the Shield (Well, okay, the first tier items shouldn't be as good as the shield). Something like:

Skull: 25 HP/25 Mana, 15 vs Disease/Poison, 4 Stamina.
Hammer: 5 Int/Wis, 12 Agility, 12 Dex, 5 AC
Gavel: 5 Int/Wis, 10 vs Magic, 30 HPs
Rod: 15 vs Fire/Cold, 35 HP/Mana, 5 int/wis
Sword: 10 Dex/Str/Agi, 35 HP/Mana, 15 vs Fire

Or -something-. Probably some of that is still a little low, but nonetheless.