Venerable Weapon Augs (Or any I think)

[Lemamas]

I noticed on the Venerable Nimble Aug of the Skeptic that there is no requirement to be agnostic. The of storms one also doesn't list a diety requirement. Is that an unlisted requirement to equip or is it intentional for the items to be able to be used by people that are not of that same diety?

[Lemamas]

Second Question, will a proc effect be added to the Skeptic version of the Nimble aug? It doesn't have one on the Venerable level.

[Roanne]

Its intentional for the augs to be usable by anyone. Their deity of orgin speaks to their process rather than their limitation.

I presume the Skeptic aug probably has higher base damage to make up for lack of a process but I haven't really looked at all this stuff yet.

[Aldier]

Any aug can be used by any person as long as they meet the level/class requirements. The "deity" of the aug goes to the type of proc, if any. "Agnostic" or "of the Skeptic" refer to a base aug with the procs costing some damage to gain the ability.

Innorukk = hate proc
Tunare = heal proc
Mith Marr = stun proc
Fennin Ro = fire proc
etc.

of the Skeptic, be it nimble, vicious, or penetrating will not have a proc.

[Ngreth Thergn]

the agnostic is the "base" item
all the deities are alterations on HOW that base delivers its damage. some of the base damage is taken and either put in elemental damage or the proc. for some of these weapons it ends up sacrificing some damage in order to get a specific proc such as healing, hate, hate reduction etc.

[Jhavon]

Couple problems with the new augs:

1 - The req level for the proc is the highest level of the aug, instead of the Rec level, rending an aug useless until you've capped it out

2 - Proc duration. I got one of the RZ augs on my rogue, thinking it'd be handy for helping my tanks. However, the proc only lasts 12sec according to the debuff icon in my buff/debuff window, while the desc of the aug states it's a 30sec debuff (as does the right-click inspect of the debuff in place on the MOB

[Aldier]

2 - Proc duration. I got one of the RZ augs on my rogue, thinking it'd be handy for helping my tanks. However, the proc only lasts 12sec according to the debuff icon in my buff/debuff window, while the desc of the aug states it's a 30sec debuff (as does the right-click inspect of the debuff in place on the MOB

What is the name of the RZ aug and what is the name of the proc?

[Ngreth Thergn]

Couple problems with the new augs:

1 - The req level for the proc is the highest level of the aug, instead of the Rec level, rending an aug useless until you've capped it out

2 - Proc duration. I got one of the RZ augs on my rogue, thinking it'd be handy for helping my tanks. However, the proc only lasts 12sec according to the debuff icon in my buff/debuff window, while the desc of the aug states it's a 30sec debuff (as does the right-click inspect of the debuff in place on the MOB

I will have to ask around on #1 I seem to remember it was on purpose, but I need to talk to some people who are out on vacation.

for #2, I am starting to think there is a general bug with spell durations.

But, what specific augment, what level are you? I want to be sure it is not something to do with casting level.

[Jhavon]

I'm using a Stalwart (81-85) Dagger with the Sublime Penetrating Symbol of the Warmonger (76-80) and I'm level 84.

[GrimwoodCT]

Couple problems with the new augs:

1 - The req level for the proc is the highest level of the aug, instead of the Rec level, rending an aug useless until you've capped it out

It would be nice to have that changed. At 85 these weapons will be rless impressive given the drops in SoD.

And PLEASE fix the long hammer graphic, please!?!?

[Jonny Panic]

Oh god yes, please fix the long hammer graphic!
I have one on my 81 Gnome SK, and it looks like he's carrying around a little one handed tinker's hammer or smithy hammer of some sort. It's ridiculous!


The Skeptic augs have the highest raw damage, at the expense of no proc. The venerable vicious one has 38 raw damage.

Other augs have less base damage, but some form of elemental damage to make up for it. For instance, the Bristlebane aug only has 36 raw damage, but also +4 poison damage, making it 40 damage... if the mob doesn't resist the poison part when struck.

Still other augs have the lesser base damage and less elemental damage, but also some kind of poor man's proc. The Saryrn aug has 36 raw damage, +3 poison damage, and a 125 poison based dd proc.

The Brell and Rallos procs sap AC and ATK for short periods, respectively. The Rodcet proc heals, the Tunare proc heals over time, the Inny proc is just hate, the Mith Marr proc is small damage plus an interrupt stun, Quellius reduces hate, Cazic is a small lifetap, and I'm not sure why, but the Prexus aug is only 36 +3 cold damage with no proc.

Personally, I loathe elemental damage (general consensus is to consider every three or four points of elemental damage equal to one point of raw damage on a weapon, due to varying mob resists with every single strike), and the procs on these augs are ABYSMAL at level 85, so I only make the Skeptic augs.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Oh god yes, please fix the long hammer graphic!
I have one on my 81 Gnome SK, and it looks like he's carrying around a little one handed tinker's hammer or smithy hammer of some sort. It's ridiculous!


The Skeptic augs have the highest raw damage, at the expense of no proc. The venerable vicious one has 38 raw damage.

Other augs have less base damage, but some form of elemental damage to make up for it. For instance, the Bristlebane aug only has 36 raw damage, but also +4 poison damage, making it 40 damage... if the mob doesn't resist the poison part when struck.

Still other augs have the lesser base damage and less elemental damage, but also some kind of poor man's proc. The Saryrn aug has 36 raw damage, +3 poison damage, and a 125 poison based dd proc.

The Brell and Rallos procs sap AC and ATK for short periods, respectively. The Rodcet proc heals, the Tunare proc heals over time, the Inny proc is just hate, the Mith Marr proc is small damage plus an interrupt stun, Quellius reduces hate, Cazic is a small lifetap, and I'm not sure why, but the Prexus aug is only 36 +3 cold damage with no proc.

Personally, I loathe elemental damage (general consensus is to consider every three or four points of elemental damage equal to one point of raw damage on a weapon, due to varying mob resists with every single strike), and the procs on these augs are ABYSMAL at level 85, so I only make the Skeptic augs.

Actually. Elemental damage is about 50%... so 4 elemental is about 2 And yes it does vary. BUT it always adds the full hate... so it is like you did 40 hate and 38 damage average per swing on your 36+4 example.

I did parsing with an 85 weapon with skeptic aug and the one with the fire proc... with NO AA. and got the same DPS out of the weapons. so while it may seem abysmal... in the end it is about the same, which is the intent. Add the AA's the help on procs, and the proc weapons will probably have better DPS, even with the small damage of the proc.

[Yakk]

AA also adds to swing and hit rate (2X/3X/MoreX attacks and strikethrough).

Increased swing rate and hit rate has no impact on proc rate.

So ... at max AA and Combat Effects and +Accuracy and %Strikethrough, the procs could scale worse than the base damage, or vice versa.

[Jonny Panic]

Actually. Elemental damage is about 50%... so 4 elemental is about 2 And yes it does vary. BUT it always adds the full hate... so it is like you did 40 hate and 38 damage average per swing on your 36+4 example.

I did parsing with an 85 weapon with skeptic aug and the one with the fire proc... with NO AA. and got the same DPS out of the weapons. so while it may seem abysmal... in the end it is about the same, which is the intent. Add the AA's the help on procs, and the proc weapons will probably have better DPS, even with the small damage of the proc.

AAs will change this considerably (I'm surprised yu didn't consider this for level 85 characters... everyone will have AAs), and while max CE mod2 and max WA might make the procs fire over 4 times per minute, maxed double attack and triple attack or dual wielding, along with maxed AAs for double, triple atk/dual wielding, accuracy, high stats, heroic stats, etc etc will make the weapon damage jump far ahead of proc output. Especially at level 85, when all of those will easily outdo whatever damage a measly 125 dd proc might do.

I'm also curious what you parsed your elemental damage against, again especially at level 85. Were the mobs relevant content? Also, did you try parsing the elemental damage against mobs who ARE resistant to that type of damage, to see just how little it CAN matter? We have plenty of hate as is, and I'd imagine the difference in hate between a skeptic aug and a wildfire aug is minimal. Parsers still put elemental damage at about 25%-33% on average, and it's frustrating trying to find what content it's better for and what content to avoid or worry about.

Everyone's clamoring for Skeptic augs even as I sell them... nobody wants anything else, except those few casters that come to me looking for hate reducers. The elemental damage just isn't enough; nobody in the know... which is almost everyone at 85... wants the measly elemental damage available. Just raw damage.

Try parsing this stuff again with minimum suggested AAs. This would be defined according to developer determination of the AAxp bonus, which ends at 1k AAs, if I understand it correctly. Make a toon with 1k AAs, put them all into Weapon Affinity, spell crit chance, spell crit damage increase, double attack AAs, triple or dual wield attack AAs, melee crit chance, melee crit damage increase, flurry, (generally any AAs that would affect melee or proc damage, chance and speed)... give yourself about 40 accuracy and 20 strikethrough and spell damage (not hard to reach with bazaar bought group gear at level 85 nowadays), and about 20 to all applicable Heroic stats.

I would like to see the resulting difference between skeptic aug, wildfire aug, and fire lord aug (raw damage, +fire damage, fire proc) at 85 with these AA and stat changes. I'd wager you'll be surprised.

Also: The hammer graphic still needs to be fixed!

[Ngreth Thergn]

AAs will change this considerably (I'm surprised yu didn't consider this for level 85 characters... everyone will have AAs), and while max CE mod2 and max WA might make the procs fire over 4 times per minute, maxed double attack and triple attack or dual wielding, along with maxed AAs for double, triple atk/dual wielding, accuracy, high stats, heroic stats, etc etc will make the weapon damage jump far ahead of proc output. Especially at level 85, when all of those will easily outdo whatever damage a measly 125 dd proc might do.

I'm also curious what you parsed your elemental damage against, again especially at level 85. Were the mobs relevant content? Also, did you try parsing the elemental damage against mobs who ARE resistant to that type of damage, to see just how little it CAN matter? We have plenty of hate as is, and I'd imagine the difference in hate between a skeptic aug and a wildfire aug is minimal. Parsers still put elemental damage at about 25%-33% on average, and it's frustrating trying to find what content it's better for and what content to avoid or worry about.

Everyone's clamoring for Skeptic augs even as I sell them... nobody wants anything else, except those few casters that come to me looking for hate reducers. The elemental damage just isn't enough; nobody in the know... which is almost everyone at 85... wants the measly elemental damage available. Just raw damage.

Try parsing this stuff again with minimum suggested AAs. This would be defined according to developer determination of the AAxp bonus, which ends at 1k AAs, if I understand it correctly. Make a toon with 1k AAs, put them all into Weapon Affinity, spell crit chance, spell crit damage increase, double attack AAs, triple or dual wield attack AAs, melee crit chance, melee crit damage increase, flurry, (generally any AAs that would affect melee or proc damage, chance and speed)... give yourself about 40 accuracy and 20 strikethrough and spell damage (not hard to reach with bazaar bought group gear at level 85 nowadays), and about 20 to all applicable Heroic stats.

I would like to see the resulting difference between skeptic aug, wildfire aug, and fire lord aug (raw damage, +fire damage, fire proc) at 85 with these AA and stat changes. I'd wager you'll be surprised.

Also: The hammer graphic still needs to be fixed!

2hand hammer got changed. (needs full patch etc...) The only other option than the one I chose is some very old graphics. They still seem to look good, but they are old. I will choose them next if what I did does not satisfy.

As for what. It was level 85 appropriate content, but as I said, no AA's at all. I did know AA's would affect it, but I *DID* think it would be more in favor of the procs, not the other way around (I play a wizard... so did not know) That brutal truth is I ran out of time after my initial parsing to try it with AA's.

The other brutal truth is I need to test it at multiple levels with multiple sets of AA's etc to make a real difference. At lower levels, AA's do not come into effect at all, then there is a difference between 60 70 75 80 and 85 with what AA's are available.

And then, I play a wizard... what is the appropriate AA set for a warrior?