Allahkhazam's July 23 Notice

[Krazick]

I noticed today they had a news article.

We changed around the display of the items somewhat. I think you will really like the change, as it makes it easier to find the information on items with a lot of listings, especially for premium members who, because of vendor and recipe info, often had a pile of extra information displayed that was tough to navigate through. So that everyone could see the full change, we hardwired http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=7773 Water Flask to always show up with the premium display. Check it out.

Going to the link shows they show Drops, Vendors, Quests and Recipes that make use of the item. Essentially Sources and uses of the items.

Anyone think they are worried that our site now is database driven and has lots of that same stuff? Not to mention that we don't charge for use, while to get this there, you need to be a Premium Member?

[Balkin]

Seems they might be a tad bit worried.

[Verdandi]

Hee hee, very interesting. An excellent example of the benefits of competition. I love Allakhazam. I'm a premium member and use it on an almost daily basis, particularly the Item Lookup. EQ Traders is still my source for all things tradeskill, of course, but better too many sources than not enough! As I see it, while Allakhazam has a lot more errors and missing information, they also have a whole lot more information covered at all. If there were a site that handled npcs or quests as thorougly as EQ Traders handles tradeskills, I'd be inclined to go there first, but no one else does. Given the massive amounts of information they're handling, I think Allakhazam does a darn good job.

I still use my printouts off Allakhazam from February of 2000, when the quests for each zone were just listed on a single page all together. I'm surprised how often they come in handy, given that it's all old world, before Kunark even. It'd be insane to try to print everything that's in there now, but the various searches are more than up to the task of finding things.

[Sylphan]

I kinda thought it was the other way around. I've been using Allakhazam's to search for items, drop locations, and recipes that use an item for quite awhile... now EQTraders has a database like that too.

I agree Allakhazam's has more errors, but they also have more information about EQ in general. Especially in the month after a new recipe is added Allakhazam's often has the new items first. I figure it's because people who aren't already registered for this message board don't bother to sign up just to report information on items they've made.

[Morani]

I've noticed something that might be seen as a bit of rivalry myself. I remember them announcing that they where putting together a database shortly after it was mentioned here. If I'm not mistaken, they got theirs out at about the same time as the DB here was originally projected to (or hinted at). So, it's not to hard to see it that way and I have to admit that the thought has crossed my mind more than once. On the other hand (to play devil's advocate) they might have looked at it slightly differently. That since they DO charge, they have an obligation to do/provide more than what can be found for free. Or maybe they wanted to do this for a while and decided to see how someone else did it to learn from their success/mistakes before they do it.

I have to agree with Verdandi though, they offer so much other stuff that they shouldn't feel like EQ Traders is a threat. And, to be honest, I use to hit their site first to look for some things dealing with tradeskills because I was easier to do the searching there and them come here to make sure it was accurate or get the details. It was a rare thing though.

[Illia]

Going to the link shows they show Drops, Vendors, Quests and Recipes that make use of the item. Essentially Sources and uses of the items.

Anyone think they are worried that our site now is database driven and has lots of that same stuff? Not to mention that we don't charge for use, while to get this there, you need to be a Premium Member?

We've had vendor listings for quite a while, drop info, all methods of finding an item for a long time. We just re-organized the display a little in the past couple days. (and pointed out what non-premium people miss, since well it costs us alot to run the site, and premium pays for that).

I've met both Niami and Grim, and they are both most excellent people. We'd never do anything in an attempt to make this (or any other) site go away, this site is an excellent, top notch and invaluable resource for the EQ community. We are not out to replace them in any sense of the word. I believe our information augments theirs nicely, and vice-versa. What a sad day it would be if people didn't have a choice.

As for errors, we constantly correct ours, but we try to refrain from copying from other sites. Given the incredible community here, I'm willing to bet that Niami's info will almost always be more accurate.

still use my printouts off Allakhazam from February of 2000, when the quests for each zone were just listed on a single page all together.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/qgen/

--Illia

[Krazick]

8)

Illia,

Thanks for the note... Since I don't currently have a Premium Membership, I didn't realize you tracked all the sources previously.

I will agree the cost of running a site like Allakhazam's isn't cheap.

It just seemed to be rather coincidental that the reorganization and the posting of the notice yesterday happened the day AFTER the EQ Traders DB Site Version was made generally available.

Yes, it has been in the works for a year. And Beta was opened up Mid June. But it finaly went public to all Tuesday, July 22 Evening.

It just struck me as quite an odd coincidence...

[Sanna]

hehe, reminds me of a line from our group's video this year, about the mayor of the relatively small german town we are staying in.

''We asked the people at the Fest what they thought of you. They said you were tall, and strong, and that other mayors were afraid of you.''
The german for 'to be afraid' is 'Angst haben.'

EQTraders is tall, and strong, and Allakhazam 'hat Angst vor EQTC'.

ok, so it sounded funnier in my head. (and no, i'm not entirely serious about that statement, it just sounded cutsy.)


Frankly...

let them be 'afraid'. Let the DB themselves up, let them do what they want. Yeah, I use AK, and i've run into that annoying 'give us money if you want this info in this format' message. THANK YOU that this message does not appear here!!

EQTC rocks. You guys put your heart into this site, and it shows. AK is too impersonal for my taste. Useful, but not a home. EQTC is comfy. Cozy. Informative.


And no matter how much any two Entities seem to get along, or really do get along, there will still be competition. Such is Life. Just as long as people don't get angry and do viscious things, friendly competition is good.

yay for EQTC. still the best place to get tradeskill information.

-- sanna

[Verdandi]

still use my printouts off Allakhazam from February of 2000, when the quests for each zone were just listed on a single page all together.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/qgen/

That list is much longer than the ones I've got, because it uses all of the lengthy, detailed descriptions with npc conversations and whatnot. My printouts are the very concise ones that were originally put into place. I'm not complaining about the current state of the descriptions, as the longer ones are definitely more useful...just not worth all the paper to print, particularly not when there are now so many more quests. But since I have the short ones already printed and at my fingertips I still use them as a first line of reference for the old world.

[Morani]

I think I smell a hint of chocolate muddied fingers here.

As for errors, we constantly correct ours,

Given the shear mass of information you try to address, errors are going to be a factor of life. It's impossible to personally verify everything so you have to rely on others to help and you've made the system as easy as you can. In other words, you're doing the best you can. It might be frustrating at times but it's understood. That and we're just spoiled here.

I'd love to see a site that's as accurate and detailed as the staff here tries to be applied to the whole of EQ. But, that would require paid, full-time employees so I know that's pretty much a pipe dream. In the mean time, I'll just dream about puling down $25K a year "researching" EQ. (<grin> I now have a Gary Larson comic in my head.)

[Pyraxis]

I don't think Alla's is worried in the least. I use both sites everyday, it's apples and oranges. And yes, I'm a premium member of Alla's. They have everything. EQTraders has only tradeskills. Why would Alla's be worried? And with the sheer amount of information, there will be errors.
Now ask yourselves how many things on this site are perfectly correct? Trivials not listed, stats not listed...nothing is perfect.

Read the news page here. Now they don't even play EQ. The passion is gone. How long do you think it'll be a labor of love, when they don't love the game anymore? Enjoy it being free while it lasts, I don't think it'll be that way long.

[Allakhazam]

As Illia stated, we've shown drops, quests, vendors and recipes for quite a while. However, I did like the way they were organized by zone and skill on the database here and asked Illia if he could do that for us. It's not a fear of competition, but rather seeing something I liked that I thought would make our display better and implementing it on our site. We made another change to the item and recipe displays today that was from a suggestion someone sent in after seeing the change we made yesterday.

Our goal is to make the best site we can possibly make for our visitors. If we see a better way to do something, we would be silly not to use it. I am guessing that Niami and Grim checked out our recipe database and used some of its ideas in developing theirs. I have no problem with that at all, and would be flattered if they liked something we did.

I don't see this site as competition with us at all. For tradeskills, this will always be the top site. The community here is amazing. We are a broader based site and I would like to think we do a pretty good job of covering every aspect of the game and all of the ways they interact, with trade skills being just one of the areas we touch on. In other words, there is planty of room for both of us.

[EnragedFilia]

excuse the derailing, but the german up there got me thinking... what would 1337 speak be like i german? could it even exst? how would you ph33r?

[Brodder FoamyMugs]

Yah but EQTC has a House Ogre, Den Mum and a cantankerous old grouchy dwarf brewer...

BTW I bet you won't catch Ilia or Alakazam wearing curlers on der feet like a certain Den Mum...

*tucks his beard into his tunic so it will be safe from a curler attacK*


Ye know the Old saying... "How can ye tell a Halflings getting ready for a date? By the curlers on their feet!"

[Xenephex]

Edit - nm.