Ok now that the carpal tunnel syndrome is receeding is there

[Zapphod]

anyway to improve on the mindless repetitive nature of trades skills?.

The only thing I could come up with is either a system similar to SWG's drag and drop approach combined with an ability using stacks of ingredients when making trivial items (obviously getting a percentage return).

Undoubtably given that the game is aging someone else has already thought of better ideas or the same ones but I would really like to see some improvements to the skills.

[Xenephex]

There is a very simple way, but it would make repetitive combining so ridiculously easy that I doubt that they would implement it (and I have mixed feelings about this myself).

A 're-combine' button. It will go find the same set of ingredients that you last put into the trade container from your inventory and place them in the container and then attempt to combine them.

If they can remember a set of spells, then this could also be done. I'm not sure it SHOULD be done, but it would certainly eliminate the problem.

[Tinile]

I like what they did in EQ for playstation. After you make a recipe, it goes into your tradeskill log book and then in the future you just click on the entry in the logbook and have the ingredients on you, and you just created an item. Sure would make things a lot easier.

[BrellRakshasas]

I definitely think it not only should be done, it should be hot-keyable.

Lots of people have mild to severe physical constraints or disabilities that prevent them from exploring tradeskills precisely due to this issue.

[Ndaara]

well as i was just answering another post and asking for more folks to sell me their celestial essences (is there a more evil subcombine?), it occurred to me that i would make them myself, if they didn't cause me wrist pain. what about making massive quantities with a random failure, like... have 100 each of solvents and scent of marr in my bags, and do something that combines them all for a random 95-99% success, but the result is no drop? or something. could still make them one at a time and be droppable.

just tossing out ideas. Most of the time i'd rather just buy em from some enterprising youngling, but there are days when no one's selling.

[Marteeny]

I say keep things the way they are.

If you made things as easy as some of you are suggesting, everyone would be a master tradeskiller.

I would understand if they made it this way with trivial or no-fail combines, but macros for skillups? Where is the fun in that?

[Krazick]

I definitely think it not only should be done, it should be hot-keyable.

Lots of people have mild to severe physical constraints or disabilities that prevent them from exploring tradeskills precisely due to this issue.

Actually this is NOT true (the bit about being unable to explore tradeskills if you can't macro or hot-key a recipe combine).

What is actually happening, is the players INSISTANCE that the ONLY WAY to get a Skill UP in a Trade Skill is to REPEAT the Recipe OVER AND OVER AND OVER Again. In ONE Sitting.

That was NOT what Verant (who came up the the mechanism in the first place) intended. It simply has been precieved as the ONLY Way to get a skill increase.

My interpretation of Verant's intention was to support occasional tradeskilling by characters. Not an extensive tradeskilling session that causes carpal tunnel syndrome. Collect, over time, the materials to make some leather armor, and "try"... be happy when you succeed. And VERY happy when you get a skill up.

The mindset people have now is the only decent way to tradeskill is sit and do 1,000+ combines in a sitting till you hit 250 and your trophy in hand. Then repeat with the next tradeskill.

Same goes with the leveling "treadmill" mantra of 'get experience till you are Level 65 ... then, and "ONLY THEN" can you enjoy the game.' Fooey!

Take the blinders off. See the game as intended. Enjoy what is presented.

[Taushar]

My interpretation of Verant's intention was to support occasional tradeskilling by characters. Not an extensive tradeskilling session that causes carpal tunnel syndrome. Collect, over time, the materials to make some leather armor, and "try"... be happy when you succeed. And VERY happy when you get a skill up.

I disagree with this. First of all, if I was to try one combine per day to get to where I can make most of the high end armors I would want would take me over 5000 days. I don't want to wait that long before trying some expensive armors that is hard to combine. Trying to make some of these high end armor at a low level is an expensive proposition and I want to be as cost efficient as possible when doing tradeskills. Can you imagine trying for BD cultural armor at skill level 1? That's why you have lower cost progression to get your skills up so that you can make these within a reasonable failure risk.

Second of all, you are assuming that I would want these armors just for myself. If that is the case, why didn't SoE make these no drop? The tradeskill is one way for some people to share their craft with others, whether giving out to friends or selling them. That is part of the economy in EQ. Given that, most of the craftspersons will keep making lower end stuff in shortest time possible to try to perfect the skills before taking on more difficult to make items. That applies in EQ as well. I would like to hone my skills as fast as i can so I start making some difficult items challenging to me.

Taushar

[Morani]

I don't see what the disagreement is Taushar. Krazick voiced what he thinks SOE intended and you are voicing what you want. those are two very different animals. The fact that I'm not independently wealthy is another example of the difference between intent and want.

To take a very Taoist approach (I'm speaking in general now; don't want you to think I'm singling you out Taushar), I would liken that to using a knife as a screwdriver (something most people have tried). The knife was not intended to be used that way so there should be no surprise or disappointment if the tip breaks because of that. If the screwdriver breaks because it was used as a screwdriver, than that's different. If Sony claims things are working as intended, then the problem isn't that things are not working the way we want but that what we want is not the way things work. Complaining that they are "broken" and need to be "fixed" doesn't address the issue. (Nobody's said that here yet, but it usually accompanies this kind of discussion. ) Often, it has the effect of slowing down change and getting what you want do to misunderstanding.

Example:
Support: What's the matter?
Requester: It doesn't work.
Support: what doesn't work?
Requester: The system.
Support: What about it doesn’t work?
Requester: It does thing other than what it should.
Support: And that is?
Requester: It does X, Y, and Z.
Support: It's suppose to do that.
Requester: But (something else) does A, B, and C.
Support: It's suppose to do that too.
Requester: RIGHT! So it DOESN'T work!
Support: What doesn't work?
Requester: The first thing I mentioned.
Support: No, it does work.
Requester: But you just told me it was suppose to ALSO do A, B, and C. It doesn't so it doesn't work.
Support: No, the first thing you mentioned is suppose to do X, Y, and Z. the Second thing is supposed to do A, B, and C.
Requester: Well I want it to A,B, and C too.
Support: Ok, so let me get this straight: you want the first thing you mentioned to do A, B, C, X, Y, AND Z correct?
Requester: Yes.
Support: It doesn't do that.
Requester: I know, it's broken.
Support: No, it not broken, it's not SUPPOSE to do A, B, and C.
Requester: Well I want it do.
Support: That's a different department, let me transfer you.
Repeat processes, potentially ad nauseum.

My point? I think there are a LOT of people who have an idea of what EQ is about that differs greatly from what Sony thinks EQ is/should be about. I also think that not enough time is spent trying to figure out what the designers had in mind and enjoying that. Meanwhile, too much time is spent by people thinking that then need A, B, C. X. Y, Z before they'll be happy. I play the game and enjoy it, I get frustrated when I learn that something doesn't work the way I though then I change what I understand and get back to enjoying it. When changes in the game are in line with what I'd like ideally, I'm ecstatic. When they are the opposite, I adapt.

As is typical of me, when two sides of something are presented; I bring up a third.

[Ndaara]

My sense of urgency to click click click while i still can, comes from the smithing "nerf" a year ago. There are aspects of that change that i like a LOT! it's great to be able to make useful armor pieces at lower skills than we could before. however i now have a fear that my skill paths are going to be taken away from me, randomly, therefore i need to click click click while i still have paths to take, before they are gone.

I try not to let it get to me. I still socialize most of the time i'm actually in the game, but i also enjoy the "dings" i get both levels and tradeskill levels. i love tradeskills and still remember the frustration i felt when i logged in with my 203 skill in smithing, and suddenly had no realistic way to increase smithing over that skill level. And wishing HARD that i'd only got to 200 skill so i could choose a more reasonable skill to take over 200. My high elf smithette is now 223 smithing skill, just over a year to collect 20 points. It takes me a very long time now, to collect enough components for just 20 combines in smithing, which if i'm very lucky and the RNG favors me i just might get a point.

i do plenty of things with my EQ time. I just have a fear in the back of my head that if i don't skill up now, my current paths will be taken from me and it will be terribly hard to raise any skill tomorrow.

[Tobin Itharel]

I just hate a system where I do something the same as another player and I dont get the same reward. The RNG plays too big a part in the skillups I think.

[Pojodan]

One thing that I feel Morrowind did right over EQ was that skill ups were determined by a set system, no randomness involved.. swing sword_01 100 times and you gain a level in swordsmanship. Gain 10 levels in different skill sets and you gain a character level. If all 10 skills are in one skill you get bonus stat points to spend. If those skill points where in an area that you specialized in then you got more bonus points.

While having a specialization that you cannot change is a bad idea I liked how you could gain levels just by practising your sneaking ability around town.

Makes sence to me that gaining a skill point should be based off of doing the skill X ammount of times. Perhaps even adding values to different items.. the harder it is to make, the more points towards the next skill up you get. Also if you fail on the item you get less points, so making items that aren't too difficult (e.g. Solstice robes) would be more beneficial.


Running off a "Random" number generator is all well and good till you realize that "Random" number generators in computer systems are not truely random. The very nature of computers makes true randomness impossible.

Maybe if EQ used www.random.org then it'd be good, but it doesn't...