Factors Other Than Stats/Items That Contribute to Skillups

[Aviera Cerveth]

Hi. I've gone through pages of topics until my eyes crossed and didn't see anything on this. If I missed it, would appreciate a nudge in the right direction.

What factors besides items/modifiers/stats affect skillups?

I've been a baker-for-fun for 3 yrs or so, and what I thought I had noticed was that skillups decreased after you got close to the triv level.

I was recently told that isn't a factor, and while those that told me are skilled, I find it hard to dismiss a phenomenon I had personally noticed.

They also mentioned the item you're making is also a factor. As in some recipes near the same triv level give you more skillups than others.

I personally find that illogical, unless you connect it to doing items with higher triv rates, which is what I believed in the first place.

Right now I'm at a miserable 220 doing halas pies for about 1 pt per 3 stack avg.

Am I just horribly unlucky? Is there a "hell level" for skills? Or am I wasting my time trying to do a recipe that's triv is too close to my skill?

[Morani]

I think there might be two different things being asked here.
What I understand your question to read: What nameable things effect skill-ups other than items, modifiers, and stats.

What I THINK you might be asking: How does the system work and how can I use that to help me?

The simplest answer is, we don't know. Since we don't know how the system works, the answers to the first part are all guesses that we've not found a way to prove wrong yet.

I've been a baker-for-fun for 3 yrs or so, and what I thought I had noticed was that skillups decreased after you got close to the triv level.

A LARGE number of people have noticed the opposite and have compiled a bunch of data that agrees with them. Just as you have a hard time accepting people telling you something that doesn't fit what you've experienced, I have a hard time excepting that you've experienced the oppose of what I have. I'm not saying you are ling, I just have the same skepticism for the same reasons. <shrug>

They also mentioned the item you're making is also a factor. As in some recipes near the same triv level give you more skillups than others. I personally find that illogical, unless you connect it to doing items with higher triv rates, which is what I believed in the first place.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. If you are saying that you don't agree with the statement that starting at skill level 20 and using recipe A with a trivial of 110 will give any noticeably different results than recipe B with a trivial of 111, than I side with you and I think most everyone else will too (I've never heard of "hot" recipes before and can think of nothing that I've seen/'heard that would support it).

What might be the confusion here is that some people (including myself) are saying that you'll get better results (I.E. fewer combines made total) going from, say, 100-200 by making a number of small steps than if you tried to do it with one recipe that trivials out at 200. Again, it'll be hard for you accept this if you don't believe it, but the idea is based on other people's observation that the closer to trivial you get, the fewer combines are needed to get a skill up; IN GENERAL (in other words, it will not ALWAYS be noticed.) Therefore if your skill is at 145, a recipe that trivials out at 155 is seen as better than one that trivials out at 185. This is because of the difference of 30 points though and has nothing to do with that SPECIFIC recipe except, possibility, the convenience or cost of the ingredients.

Sheer numbers wise, the results between two recipes with the identical trivials should be the same but one may cost less to make, sell back for more, or be harder to find pieces for. An example of that is the Shir Vahl VS Fetid VS Faydark Essences. The most useful is the Faydark because it's used in pottery AND smithing cultural needles (because of the demand, they are expensive and hard to find, even foraging them is no more than 5-6 per hour), the cheapest is the Shar Vahl because you can pick the pieces off the ground (at about 20-25 per HALF hour, so I've heard), but the Fetid is considered the favorite because you can buy the ingredients in large quantities and an inexpensive price any time you want (If you have PoP).

Am I just horribly unlucky? Is there a "hell level" for skills?

I have a personal theory on this that I've not bothered to do the work to find out if the data supports it or not. I think there are 3 levels as you progress through a tradeskill from 0-250 (maybe ore but these three seem the most noticeable). From 0 to about 135 it's pretty easy and you can pretty much expect it to take less than 10 combines between skill-ups (results seem to vary from specific tradeskill to specific trade skills, some might be less than 5 at this time and others might be less than 15). From about 140 to about 180 is the second "level" and it's likely to take 10-20 combines per skill-up. Then it jumps to "level" 3 and gets much harder, requiring 2 or more stacks per skill-up on average. I've heard that there is a step down somewhere around 235/240 where things get easier but I can't voice a personal opinion since I've not gotten there myself. Stats seem to help making the number of combines smaller by a single percentage applied to all the levels.

Or am I wasting my time trying to do a recipe that's triv is too close to my skill?

Test it for yourself, get the pieces for 500 combines of Picnics and do them. Then do 500 combines of Halas Pies and see what one makes you feel more frustrated at the end. Ultimately, it won't matter if you get LESS skill-ups on Picnics if you like doing them more.

[Cigarskunk]

Re: Factors Other Than Stats/Items That Contribute to Skillu

Hi. I've gone through pages of topics until my eyes crossed and didn't see anything on this. If I missed it, would appreciate a nudge in the right direction.

What factors besides items/modifiers/stats affect skillups?

Here are the theories -

1) INT/WIS - these DEFINATELY help - both myself and my brother have witnessed first hand the difference in skilling up a pure caster class vs skilling up a tank in various tradeskills.

2) Secondary stats - some folks think they help in success, some think they help in skilling, some probobly think both - if they are any help at all, it's either very minimal or requires maxed out secondary stats - personally, I've given up on them and don't sweat them anymore, but that's just me.

3) Number of successes - there are folks who swear that there's a better chance at getting a skill up off of a successful combine then a failed combine - personally, I don't think this is true - we'll probobly never truelly know.

4) Special recipes - it's been theorised that some items give a better chance of a skill up then others - for example, most fletchers swear that you've got a better chance of a skill up making a bow post 202 then you do of making an arrow - I honestly can't say if certain recipes are better or if I just had a lucky streak and there's no list of "easier" combines that I know of - just folks' personal xps in various threads.

5) Closer to trivial - I think this has more to do with the number of success theory then it being it's own theory, but as a baker who will draw a line in the sand on skilling off of hallas meat pies, I'll just tell you to crunch the numbers and go with what's cheapest and has the fewest combines.

I've been a baker-for-fun for 3 yrs or so, and what I thought I had noticed was that skillups decreased after you got close to the triv level.

I was recently told that isn't a factor, and while those that told me are skilled, I find it hard to dismiss a phenomenon I had personally noticed.

I have encountered that issue with a number of tradeskills too often to ignore it as well. I honestly don't know if there's a real bug that causes the last point of trivial to have a harder percentage point to it or if it's simply a case that most people tend to start paying real attention to thier combines once they're at that beloved "just one more point to trivial."

They also mentioned the item you're making is also a factor. As in some recipes near the same triv level give you more skillups than others.

I personally find that illogical, unless you connect it to doing items with higher triv rates, which is what I believed in the first place.

You're confusing two of the points I listed above -

1) Some folks feel that by doing something that's closer to trivial that they will get more success per combine due to either a superstition that closer to trivial is better for success or that a successful combine gives a better chance for a skill up then a failed combine.

2) Some folks also seem to feel that certain recipes give a better chance for a skill up then others. For example, when I skilled my chanter up on brewing I used skull ale - it's got several components and I only had a 150ish INT at the time. When I skilled my SK up on brewing I used fettid essence but had a 180ish INT - fetis essence only has two components. Now, it certainly did seem like I soared through the skill ups using the fetid essence vs the skull ale, but was that due to higher INT, fewer clicks or that fetid essence has a better percent chance to skill up?

Right now I'm at a miserable 220 doing halas pies for about 1 pt per 3 stack avg.

Am I just horribly unlucky? Is there a "hell level" for skills? Or am I wasting my time trying to do a recipe that's triv is too close to my skill?

You're at the end of the hell levels actually - I wish you had complained sooner though - as I mentioned above, HMPs is a recipe put in the game by Satan - I did MTPs from 191 all the way to 250 personally.

Since you're nearly to trivial anyway, why not entertain yet another old tradeskill "beleif" which is "if you get stuck on a trivial point, try doing something different to get yourself unstuck" - I make no promises of this actually working for you, but at the very least, the change of pace is kinda refreshing.