GIVING POWER TO THE TRADE SKILL PEOPLE

[Antha]

There has been at least one VERY SUCCESSFUL attempt to get EQ changed for the benefit of an interest group. Let me tell you about it, then suggest that we do the same.

The Druids Grove started a wish list STICKY thread. People were encouraged to offer ideas for changes for druids and also to support or point out problems with previously posted ideas. SOMEBODY (im not sure who) boiled down the list to the most reasonable and desired items. A petition thread was started based on that edited wish list. The signatures on the petition went on for like 157 pages. They submitted it to SOE. 6 months later, 90% of the items requested HAD BEEN IMPLIMENTED.

Do we have anything similar? If so, where is it? Is it sticky? If we do not have this, THEN LETS DO IT!!!!!! We should create a separate sticky wish list in every skill and one in general discussion, then a single petition in general discusion when the wish lists are complete.

Please do not put your wish list items here (they will get lost). But please indicate if you think this is a good idea.

[Lothay]

EQ Traders is not in the petition drive business.

While the idea sounds good, and I don't want to discourage you from seeking change, this is NOT the forum for that.

Niami and Ngreth have already stated several times that they are not going to "champion causes." Please don't put them in an akward postion.

~Lothay

P.S. I'm leaving this thread open, but I am watching closely. Please don't turn my reply into something to be angry about. The site owners simply do not have the time, energy or extra real-world dollars to support your proposed project.

[Feadorn]

Sony made a reply to the petition drive and said that they ignore them. The best way to get things implemented is to do it online (while in the game)

Feadorn

[Hibashira]

Sony tend to ignore "lists" with "signatures" because 1) you can't separate individual wishes without doing manual re-organization, and 2) you can't easily verify the signatures.

In game petition carries more weight because they know exactly which account it came from, and therefore accountable. Think "296 verified current subscribers requested this feature, may be we should look at it." As oppose to "a list of 500 unverified people (we don't even know whether they are current customers) filed 1 request for this feature, may be...."

Think about a customer service request situation, all these "requests" or "suggestions" are sent. Someone read through them and file it. Eventually, one of the piles would be class request - druid, and another pile would be skill request - tailoring, etc. Someone or some database will keep track of a list and a committee will determine appropriateness and set priority. If a petition or list cannot be filed neatly, it will go into a misc. pile that needs further manual processing. That's probably the job that no one in Sony wants and therefore will get the least attention.

[Itek]

so, tired...

much epic raiding today...

(Thewife got VSR pulsing green stone, another Guildie got Faydedar's Pod of Seawater, I got all but 4 of my threads for shawl 5)

someone else look up the "putting away my soapbox" thread... think DenMom said all that needs to be said about "wishlists" ...

[Antha]

1) Without support from the denmother this would not work, and she has every right not to give that support. So this is dead.

2) Even if soe SAYS they ignore petitions, they DO NOT. The druids grove petition proves it. Heck, they even changed the effect on the druid EPIC at our request. The necro epic, with the same bothersome feature, did not get changed. But this is all moot (see point 1)

3) Dont remember seeing anything about wishlists in the FAQ. If this subject comes up frequently......

4) I DID try to get people to do something about my pet pieve IN GAME, but my message on this forum requesting in game action was deleted.

[Cantatus]

4) I DID try to get people to do something about my pet pieve IN GAME, but my message on this forum requesting in game action was deleted.

Actually it was moved here in the Primal Scream Room since it was a rant and belonged there. Posts here are rarely deleted.

[Ruatha]

2) Even if soe SAYS they ignore petitions, they DO NOT. The druids grove petition proves it.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html

[Itek]

<a href="viewtopic.php?t=4720&amp;highlight=soapbox" class="topictitle">Throwing away my soapbox</a>

sigh... sorry I was tired

Search (link at top of page)
Keyword "soapbox"

Let me try for "petitions" and "wishlists" ... One second...

Ok, petitions shows DenMom's post (listed as author)

wishlists doesn't

hmm... search by author... Bah ... Niami (can't spell, tried Nam first) posts too much... *grin*

[calidorn2]

I heard something of this druid wishlist on Castersrealm enchanter board.

From what I can gather there is a SoE staff member named Absor (posts under this name but I am unsure of his real name) who actively participates in that boards threads. He also plays a druid. Many think it is simply favouritism and/or a case of him actually understanding the druid class. Most classes feel that they have no champion at SoE whereas druids do. Most feel that noone at SoE actually has a clue about how to play each class. Druids have Absor. Absor apparently has no interest in posting on any other boards. Including this one.

[Aquila Swiftspirit]

About the Druid's Grove petition: Sony/EQ were working on class balancing and the Druid's Grove did a petition. About the only thing changed was that druid's got a mini-CH with nice agro.

Just before that, clerics got their melee hammer and haste thing. Then, alas, cleric melee got made less effective.

Since then, they've made charming harder, and less worthwhile, and made soloing in PoP garner less experience than it did.

I don't think that most druids feel like we've got Absor in our back pocket or something... some druids are happy with the current class balance. Others feel that druids in PoP have difficulty getting groups for a variety of reasons. You can use your own experience to decide what you think about it. Talk to druids you group with in various places. Talk to druids in your guilds.

[Zeralenn]

And remember this:

Correlation is not (necessarily) causation.

Just because something matches -- 90% of those suggestions were implemented -- does not mean that this suggestion list was the reason those changes were made.

...Zera

[Angelsyn]

To be perfectly honest, I've seen the exact same thing(s) appear on the Paladins of Norrath board.

Very rarely, they get a post from Absor (and it's been confirmed to be the real Absor) indicating that some things are being looked at.

Then again, things that make up huge discussions (such as potential solutions to the Warrior aggro problem in PoP) don't appear to receive much notice.

To be honest, most Tradeskills are just fine. Sure, there are holes and there are some issues... but overall Tradeskills are doing fine.

Yes, I would like to see more potent Stat Drinks to match up with the more potent Stat Foods... Yes, I would like to see some BD-Cultural wearable by Vah Shir... Yes, I would like to see Troll Cultural expanded and slightly improved...

But, the Tradeskill Community has a very good reputation, very strong representation and, to be perfectly honest, very good satisfaction.

I feel that it is more important that any Tradeskill fixes be reviewed in depth, rather than rushed out simply because "we want more".

[Hibashira]

Absor roams all the major class boards, Graffe, Ranger Glade, Safehouse, etc. The chanters are whining simply because there is no major chanter board out there so Absor don't say anything about chanters.

[Silound]

I've seen his name float up around here before as a poster...wanst too long ago either. And I agree, compare tradeskills as a whole to the rest of the game, and you will find tradeskills are *nearly* perfectly balanced, compared to other issues that have no relevance here. /cheer to Devs who do a good job with tradeskills. Now, since I have finished brown-nosing, make vendors pay more for BD's, they're practically worthless on Prexus.

Silound
Troubadour of Prexus