Hypothetical Situation

[Stugein]

Say you find a previously undiscovered tradeskill recipe (lets just say brewing for example since that is what I am working on for the moment). The recipe is only a two-item combine, both ingredients readily available on vendors for very little cash (we'll use Soda Water as the example [soda + water flask]). You find that the trivial for this extremely simple and extremely cheap combine is >250. You can skill all the way to Grandmastery on this item.

What would you do? Would you share with the class the details of this awesome new "Soda Water" skillup route you've discovered so that all may benefit? Or would you keep it to yourself to protect your trade and keep the brewing (or whatever) market from crashing due to everyone and their grandmother being able to be a GM brewer (or whatever) for little to no effort? Would you do something else entirely? For arguments sake, assume the finished combined product is useless for any marketable purpose. You wouldn't be able to make money off of it - it's just a skillup route.

No, I haven't discovered any such recipe. I just thought it would be interesting to hear what people would do when faced with this situation.

[Verdandi]

Knowing that's not the sort of thing that would ever be put in intentionally, I'd drop a note to the EQ bugs email address explaining what I'd found. Because they don't usually reply to stuff, I'd say in my email that I'll wait, oh I dunno say 2 weeks, and if I don't have a reply after that time I'll assume the recipe is working as intended and start using it. If that time went by and I didn't hear anything, I'd post it here and start spreading the word. But honestly, I'd be shocked if they got such an email and there wasn't a patch within days "fixing" the recipe.

[Jannelle Silverthorne]

Make that "Hours" instead of "Days" for the "Emergency Patch" if the finished product can be sold back to the vendors for more than the cost of the ingredients even if it's by a few coppers.

[Kaidian Blade]

Well... how would you know you can use it all the way to 250 unless you actually DID use it all the way to 250?

So you discover this secret recipe (or bug) that allows you to GM a skill with little to no effort. You just KNOW that it wasn't put in intentionally. So it's a bug - a fluke. You've already used it to your own personal advantage. So in a way... you've already cheated the system - exploited it even.

If you report it, spell out the specifics and flat out tell them that you've GM'd a skill in a few hours and that it clearly seems to be a bug, they may put in an emergency patch within a very short amount of time. As for your new skill of 250... I would be curious to fathom SOE's response. Do they:

1. Remove the "bug" and let you keep your skill as a courtesy thank you for bringing this exploit to their attention

2. Remove the "bug" and strip you of your skill and just thank you for your honesty

3. Remove the "bug" and strip you of your skill, but thank you for your honesty by bestowing you some trinket of their chosing

4. Remove the "bug" and strip you of your skill, but thank you for your honesty by giving you a free month (or more) of EQ

5. Remove the "bug" and strip you of your skill, but thank you for your honesty by giving you the honorary title of "The Honest" appended at the end of your main's name

I know VI used to reward players for bringing exploits (like the item dupe ones) to their attention. No idea what SOE would do though.

Then again, if you just keep your trap shut... someone, someday will eventually find the same bug and enough time may have elapsed that your quick route to 250 may get overlooked and you get to keep it.

/shrug

Me? I'd tell them and see what they do.

[Woodeckt]

I would have to agree and it would have to be told to Sony. I also like the wait a few weeks but would change that to days for a reply before posting it here. Yes I would share the information all of us faithfull here have put in our time sweat tears and if anyone found a new recipe they would share it not just a fast one.

[Niami DenMother]

Most definitely would report it in via my contacts, as I've done with other bugs and exploits.

I'd warn anyone that does find an exploit, to get it reported in quickly and resist the strong urge to make use of said exploit. We've known of tradeskillers in the past that got banned for using things like the blue diamond vendor bug, etc., and I'd rather not lose more members of the community due to such things.

[Greymantle]

Best just to..

Tell them about it. I can think of two recipes off the top of my head that allow you to master two trades now that fit that discription other than the trivial level. But that said, once i had reported it i would not wait two weeks to pass the info around. Maybe 2 days, if they are that concerned about it the will act quickly.They have in the past.


Oh and for the curious the recipes i mentioned are well known and quite 'legal'.

fetid essece for brewing and filited bear for baking

[Danthen]

Honestly, I wouldnt report it, nor would I tell anyone about it.

(If, hypothetically of course, you did find something like this, just keep quiet and get your skill to 250. If they find out later and remove the recipe, no sweat off your back, but if you petition it and they decide to roll back your skill, you just lost the chance at a free 250 brewing.)

[Farnyr]

So lets say a friend I know, Ill call him um...."Farnyr" no wait, thats too obvious, ill call him "Xynn"..no wait, how about "Mr. X". So Mr. X accidentally stole a car and...

Ok ok, all kidding about hypotheticals aside, if the mystical recipie did exist, there are two ways youll know it can take you to 250. The most obvious is you find it out by a fluke and use it to get to 250. The other is you are already 250 and got bored, so you experiment and find its not trivial to you.

Now the second way, you arent at fault of using a bug, so reporting it will just get it fixed and you are in the clear, since you never actually used the recipie for a skill up.

The first way is a bit tricky. While technically you didnt know it was a bug, and for all you knew, it was supposed to get you to 250, it was still exploiting a bug. Most likely, when you report it, nothing will happen. I say that because when people get banned its for exploiting "Known Bugs". Now thats not saying the person knew about it and can just feign ignorance, a "Known Bug" is a bug that SoE knows about(and tries to make sure we dont). In this situation, its most likely an "Unknown Bug" so they cant really punish you for using it.

As for the reward, you MIGHT be able to con a "The Honest" title out of a GM, but its highly unlikely, the development team is extremely protective over the titles.

Oh yeah...dont tell anyone! I know in the community we share information, this would obviously be something that needed to be fixed, and having it get around before the fix, can only hurt the market in the long run.

[Verdandi]

Well... how would you know you can use it all the way to 250 unless you actually DID use it all the way to 250?

:shock: Good point! Didn't think of that. Well, seeing as I'm at 200 baking right now, finding something like this that wasn't trivial to me at 200 would be enough to prompt an email.

[Volante]

I wonder if this can be likened to the 'alternate' route to the 6th coldain shawl.

It used to be that a very trivial combine that was part of the PotC earring gave you the same item needed to complete the 6th shawl. I didn't try it myself, (I had the shawl at the time) but I picked up on the name similarities and a guildie of mine at the time who had failed their 6th 3 times was able to succeed using that recipe.

I made a post on it after they had succeeded on it, and eventually lots of people who were stuck at that spot made their shawl.

It did eventually get fixed; I'm not sure if someone /bug'd it (I had actually pretty much forgotten about it after I posted) or if someone at EQ noticed it here, but I don't think anyone got rolled back to 5th shawl because of it.

A two item, cheap combine to 250 is probably an extreme case of this. It would definatly get more publicity and would prob get fixed much faster, but I doubt people would suffer retribution.

--Raedron V`Lante, 64th Arch Mage of the Spurned
Eternal Advocates, Vazaelle

250 Baking
250 Brewing
250 Fletching
250 Jewelcraft
245 Pottery
247 Smithing
182 Tailoring

[Lilosh]

I wouldn't tell *ANYBODY*.


I find a quick, cheap route to 250 Tailor? Praise Jeebus, I'm happy.

Wouldn't tell Sony, Wouldn't tell my guild, and Wouldn't tell Eqtraders.

Telling people about unknown skillup paths, exp spots, or loot drops (when you are unsure about their stability, or future) is a DARN good way to get then overused, over-populated, petitioned, and removed.

Granted, I wouldnt be that guy. The one who brags to everyone about his "L33t Skills". Or taunts people. I would be just like normal, and not say Word ONE about it.

Is it the Boy Scout thing to do? No sir.
Is it the smart thing to do? Yes sir.

Why should I believe that a two-three item combine is an exploit when JC has Store Bought, 2 item combines to 250, Brewing has Fetid Essence and Mino Brew, Fletching has everything until 250+, and lord knows what else.

They add new recipes, they are obviously intended to be used.

(Edited to add that telling people abou tmy path would make dozens or hundreds of new GMs, which would dilute an already declining economy, devaluing my items, and decresing my profit. Bad idea all around)

-Lilosh

[Farnyr]

I hear Lilosh found a way to 250 fishing without ever buying a fishing pole and he didnt tell us. GET HIM!!!!

[Itek]

short reply

I wrote a long reply, then thought better of it.

Short answer...

If the recipe didn't make a profit I would presume it was working as intended. I would be very happy, and the tradeskill market would work itself out. (you couldn't make a killing selling small pieces of acrylia for 65 pp anymore, but you wouldn't see 8 million acrylia studded masks for sale either)

I would let everyone know about it. Share information. Kinda why I come here to read the boards.

If it did make money.... well I have watched people get banned. I like playing the game. I would not touch the recipe with a off-handed fishing pole and would email someone at SOE who would listen. (if I could find one such person, when I complained that their old "whineplay" filter wouldn't let me submit two replies in under a minute I got sent the automated reply on how they don't support people playing behind firewalls.... huh?)

Just my opinion.

Quick bug / exploit check.

If it hurts / helps you for nothing it's a bug.

If you walk up to a amiable /con vendor, click on them and get smacked for 10k ... it's a bug.

If you combine a malachite and a tiny dagger in a jewelry kit and produce "ring of wealth" which sells for 100 pp ... it's a bug. (more specificly it's an exploit)

If you seem to be getting something for nothing... If it seems to be too good to be true... run like a bard with a nifty drum.

[eqNichola]

I'd follow the same guidelines as with 'exploits' in computer security (or vulnerabilities, as they're called; same thing) - inform the vendor, give them a reasonable time in which to fix, then if still unfixed, go public.

Thus the email would say something like, "Hi, this recipe takes two cheap storebought items and is trivial at > 250 Tailoring; this looks like a mistake; to encourage you to fix it, I will be posting this in various places one week from NOW, if it remains in-game. Happy coding!"