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**Iannyen** · 03-04-2003, 07:12 AM

What, no CHA?!?!?

I quit...

**Bennan** · 03-04-2003, 07:25 AM

Hehe, nice idea but I am GM'ing my skills all on seperate characters so no good for me.

But that said, I would be more generous and give 2 to each stat per GM and 20 hp/mana for each GM as well....and the same with the percent mod as well 2 per GM. Maybe even AC as well 2 per GM again.

After all, to get everything up there takes a hell of an effort.

**Zyrtryx Conjureblade** · 03-04-2003, 08:34 AM

Agreed. I don't even plan on having any of my characters attempt to GM Jewelcraft at all (Too expensive, and I don't have an Enchanter as one of my alts, anyway (Deleted him and started a Froglok Warrior)), and I doubt I'd ever have any single character GM more than 2 skills - I'd rather spend AA points on other things, if I ever get high lvl enough to use them.

**Faymar** · 03-04-2003, 10:21 AM

Excellent idea. This would certainly motivate me to push up my neglected skills.

**Lilosh** · 03-04-2003, 02:05 PM

Meh.... Not enough risk vs reward until you get all 7 skills to 250.

And I daresay that the 1750 Crowd would probably shrug at it. They tend to be uberguild folks, who have access to VERY nice drops.

It's a good thought , though. Just need to possibly tweak the stats. Keep in mind how much AA and Time went into GMing 2 skills. Or 3.

-Lilosh

**Verdandi** · 03-04-2003, 02:16 PM

Great idea! I agree that requiring multiple skills at 250 in order to get much in the way of stats is asking a bit much, but maybe it could give the +10int +10wis +10str +10dex +50hp/mana and +2% to all tradeskills when you have one at 250 and the others at 200, and then get even better as you get more skills over 200. That's a lot more tradeskilling work than you do for the 8th shawl, and not all that much less valuable given that it's going in the charm slot. It also doesn't require any particular investment of experience in AAs, which I think has frustrated slow levellers (like myself) a lot lately.

**Demorgoth** · 03-04-2003, 05:57 PM

Seems to be a little misunderstanding with what I was suggesting.

1) The effects are so low to fit in with the other charms. If you'll notice most other charms max out at very low levels of stats compared with existing armor slots. 15hp is considered 'good' for the max effectiveness of a charm requiring hours of camping rare spawns. I think you are all vastly overestimating the stats on existing charms. It's like saying a crafted earring should have a raid-obtained breastplate level stats.

2) This is meant to be a reward to existing tradeskillers, and a slight incentive to those really close to maxing a skill. It is not meant to be so good it encourages everyone with 500k to PL all tradeskills. That would devistate the community IMO

3) The %mod was intended to max out a skill you've already capped at 250. I didn't intend it to supplement existing non-maxed skills. It's to remove the necessity for a seperate item for every skill just for 2 extra skill points.

4) Frankly, +14stats and ac and +140hp/mana on an openly accessible charm simply ain't gonna happen. Getting to 200 in multiple tradeskills can be obtained with a couple of hours work and a couple of kpp, so again, that would be pointless.

**Lilosh** · 03-04-2003, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Demorgoth

Getting to 200 in multiple tradeskills can be obtained with a couple of hours work and a couple of kpp, so again, that would be pointless.

I challenge you to spend a couple hours, and a few thousand plat an get the following to 200(without stockpiling materials beforehand):

Tailoring
Smithing

As well, getting one Tradeskill to 250 , with a few exceptions, is akin to getting your epic. Exceptions being Brewing and JC.

-Lilosh

**Demorgoth** · 03-05-2003, 03:38 AM

Please read what I wrote before challenging me, otherwise you're going to lose every time

Multiple == more than one

Multiple =/= 'the most difficult two'

Brewing + JC = Two tradeskills

Therefore your 'exceptions' prove conclusively my statement that "Getting to 200 in multiple tradeskills can be obtained with a couple of hours work and a couple of kpp"

Pottery and Fletching can probably get to 200 in an afternoon's work if you're set up for it. That means you can get JC to 250 and 3 other tradeskills to 200 in a couple of days in Shadowhaven, with limited expense, and get guarenteed a charm comparable to the best charms dropping from obscenely rare spawns in the highest level LoY zones. That means everyone else can (and will) do it. You may WANT the easy route of having everything handed to you on a plate, but it ain't gonna happen. You have to be realistic in your suggestions if you want Sony to take you seriously.

I assume since you're on this board you're a tradeskiller?

**Nolequen** · 03-05-2003, 06:48 AM

In defense of Lilosh, let me say that getting a COUPLE of tradeskills over 200 in a COUPLE of hours seems ridiculous to me. Getting A tradeskill over 200 in a couple of hours is reasonable, but getting two tradeskills is gonna take you at least a FEW hours. Although it might be doable with just a couple of Kplat. It does take time to actually do the combines. Now getting a COUPLE of tradeskills to 250 in a COUPLE of hours is right out of the question. Although it might be comperable (in time commitment) to camping in a 40 lvl zone for a 60 lvl character.

Now then, the idea of the charm is interesting, but seems too anti-twink for even the charm concept. Most of the charms could be used by a sub 50 lvl character (with limited value, perhaps). This charm requires not only the time and expense of pumping up the tradeskills, but also requires the lvls and AA points to get multiple tradeskills to GM level. Perhaps a different suggestion would be something like the weapon skill charm. Have the charm get more value the more each of the tradeskills improves. You could even have the "turn in" or whatever to get the charm require 200 in more than one tradeskill -- or just have it drop from a mob and be fairly worthless until all skills approach 200--maxing out when all skills are 250. Would alchemy, poison making, tinkering count?

**Demorgoth** · 03-05-2003, 12:30 PM

I've spent around 40-50 hours hunting in the new zones since LoY opened, specifically looking for a charm of any kind. I haven't seen a single one drop yet. Not one. Nada. Zip. If you had a charm that gave anything remotely worthwhile statwise, with only 4-6 hours work (generous estimate based on your own synopsis), then EVERYONE would get one, provided they had 5kpp and an afternoon spare.

Please, whilst you may think your ideas are 'good', they do not fit in any way with the existing risk/reward of charms. Sure, I could say, 'Hey, I want the Grimel quest earring to be charm slot useable!', but IT DOESN'T TALLY WITH EXISTING CHARMS

PLEASE, before you comment further, educate yourself on the subject. Find out what charms are, how they are obtained, and what stats they have. Until you do that, you simply cannot comprehend how unfeasibly out of whack your proposals are.

Now then, the idea of the charm is interesting, but seems too anti-twink for even the charm concept

Every single charm in existance (to date) is no-drop. How can you state the concept isn't 'anti-twink', but that dropping a pile of plat on a L1 alt and powering a couple of skills on a second PC , is too anti-twink?

Most of the charms could be used by a sub 50 lvl character (with limited value, perhaps).

There are charms that relate specifically to casters and how many spells they have memmed. There are charms that relate specifically to races. There are charms that relate to how much plat you have. There are charms relating to bane weapons. There are monk tailored charms relating to low weight. There are lots of charms related to your stats (subL60s cap at 255 remember) Hell, there's even a charm that relates to a specific woodie faction. ALL of these charms are all/all. You wanna talk about 'limited value' how about the charm that only works if it's raining or snowing?

This charm requires not only the time and expense of pumping up the tradeskills, but also requires the lvls and AA points to get multiple tradeskills to GM level.

So does:

Bundle of Tiger Whiskers
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHARM
AC: 2
SV DISEASE: +4 SV MAGIC: +4 SV POISON: +4
at 166 agi & dex : 1ac 2 MR DR PR
at 266 agi & dex : 4ac 9 MR DR PR
at 280 agi & dex : 5ac 10 MR DR PR
WT: 0.5 Size: TINY
Class: ALL
Race: ALL
Charm Effect: CHRMHighAgiDex

Sub L60 you cap at 255 stats. You need levels and AA points to hit the 305 max, and you need a large amount of gear (or plat) to hit that cap without an enchanter and shaman in tow 24/7

20-30 hp/mana is the absolute max I've seen on any charm thus far with capped out relationship, yet hear I'm hearing this one should have 50/50 base or 140/140 cap? Utterly rediculous

Sorry if I'm comming across as 'agressive', but I'm frustrated that people who obviously have no idea of the level of stats or availability of charms, yet come along and suggest things that are completely unfeasibly, given the facts of the issue.

Can I have my Raex legs equipable in the charm slot too plz! (

/

**Verdandi** · 03-05-2003, 12:41 PM

A good idea doesn't have to have all the exact details worked out perfectly in order to be a good idea. Balancing is the developers' job, after all. If they like the idea they're still going to adjust it as they see fit anyway. I say submit it

**Lilosh** · 03-05-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Demorgoth

Please read what I wrote before challenging me, otherwise you're going to lose every time

Multiple == more than one

Multiple =/= 'the most difficult two'

Brewing + JC = Two tradeskills

Therefore your 'exceptions' prove conclusively my statement that "Getting to 200 in multiple tradeskills can be obtained with a couple of hours work and a couple of kpp"

Pottery and Fletching can probably get to 200 in an afternoon's work if you're set up for it. That means you can get JC to 250 and 3 other tradeskills to 200 in a couple of days in Shadowhaven, with limited expense, and get guarenteed a charm comparable to the best charms dropping from obscenely rare spawns in the highest level LoY zones. That means everyone else can (and will) do it. You may WANT the easy route of having everything handed to you on a plate, but it ain't gonna happen. You have to be realistic in your suggestions if you want Sony to take you seriously.

I assume since you're on this board you're a tradeskiller?

Lets see, where to begin.

Let's see. Where to begin?

Fine you can get to 200 IN THOSE TWO SPECIFIC TRADESKILLS in a couple hours work. Do not generalize when you mean TWO SPECIFIC tradeskills.

I dare say, in an 8 hour day, you could probably get to 200 in Jewelcraft and Fletching. MAYBE Brewing and Pottery in a 10 hour day. (I spent AGES getting from 1-199 pottery BEFORE The "Skill adjustment").

Baking would probably take a little less then a day to get to 200, assuming you dont have components stockpiled. If you do, then you need to include the time you spent camping them.

I still like Verdandi's idea of the charm being good once you hit 200 in *ALL* Tradeskills, with one at 250. Try hitting 200 in smithing, or tailoring. One of those would be NECCESSARY before the charm would become active.

-Lilosh

**Nolequen** · 03-05-2003, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Demorgoth

I've spent around 40-50 hours hunting in the new zones since LoY opened, specifically looking for a charm of any kind. I haven't seen a single one drop yet. Not one. Nada. Zip. If you had a charm that gave anything remotely worthwhile statwise, with only 4-6 hours work (generous estimate based on your own synopsis), then EVERYONE would get one, provided they had 5kpp and an afternoon spare.

Woah. Hold up. Everyone has agreed that GMing one of the skills should be required. So ease off on this argument. My point was that your claim that a player could get "a couple of" skills to 200 in a "couple of hours" was patently FALSE. And stop ignoring the other relevant parts of my argument. If time is such a problem, MAKE IT DROP from mobs. Tradeskillers have hunting and camped for other items. Calm down and do what you ask others to do. READ before responding.

Every single charm in existance (to date) is no-drop. How can you state the concept isn't 'anti-twink', but that dropping a pile of plat on a L1 alt and powering a couple of skills on a second PC , is too anti-twink?

Have not camped for a charm, it is true, but have found maps and strategies to camp for specific charms on other sites. Some reporting as little as 5 minutes for the drop. Others taking 6 hours or so. Others having no luck. A little like the RNG... In addition, at least one charm is quested (presumably could be MQed). All could be used by a character under 51. Yours could not be used at ALL. You would have to be over 51. That is NOT in line with the other charms.

Most of the charms could be used by a sub 50 lvl character (with limited value, perhaps).

There are charms that relate specifically to casters and how many spells they have memmed. There are charms that relate specifically to races. There are charms that relate to how much plat you have. There are charms relating to bane weapons. There are monk tailored charms relating to low weight. There are lots of charms related to your stats (subL60s cap at 255 remember) Hell, there's even a charm that relates to a specific woodie faction. ALL of these charms are all/all. You wanna talk about 'limited value' how about the charm that only works if it's raining or snowing?

Great. And all can be USED to some value by sub 51s. Many would even get equal value: though the monks are likely unhappy about the weight of the "low weight" charm, number of people in the zone; number of bags you carry, lack of a haste buff, lack of buffs at all, day/night, rain/clear to mention a few.

Sorry if I'm comming across as 'agressive', but I'm frustrated that people who obviously have no idea of the level of stats or availability of charms, yet come along and suggest things that are completely unfeasibly, given the facts of the issue.

Not aggressive... I think the point others have made is right: Submit it. Don't expect us to all jump up for joy about the stats or limitations you suggest, however.
Last attempt to keep this from PSR: Nice idea. I honestly think you are right about the stats, but I think you are wrong about the 2GM minimum restriction to get any value at all from the charm. High stats don't fit the existing charms but neither does a +51 lvl requirement for it to do anything.

Nolequen

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