Group Seals for Cultural?

[jonnypanic]

Edit: I've actually decided to move this issue to the SoE Veterans Lounge.

[Aldier]

It will probably be discussed on both forums because it is a tradeskill crafted issue.

I think Ngreth posted that he has some ideas of how to improve availability for those that need multiple foci from single slots.

[Kaepak]

Ngreth responded to the thread on EQ live.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...opic_id=159510

[Telorea]

For me (since I was not in Beta this time around) the most surprising thing about the cultural armour when I had the chance to make some was that there were no group seals for the armour.

To explain myself a little, I had heard through these and EQ Trader forums that there would be Raid Seals and Group Seals. Now I took this to mean that tough groupable targets (i.e. names in the new zones) would drop special clay for Group-Level Seals and Raid targets would drop special clay for Raid-Level Seals.

I was therefore expecting to have to farm a lot of names in order to get a full set of foci for my new armour - and I was both pleased and disappointed at the same time when I found that no drops from names were needed. Pleased because it meant that I could upgrade my armour without losing foci - Disappointed because (presumably due to no named-drops being needed) my finished armour was not really on par with the armour and drops in the new UF zones.

So at the moment cultural does not have any "Group" level seals - it only has "Solo" level seals and "Raid" seal - we are totally missing genuine "Group" level seals.

Now no-one should expect soloable gear (even tradeskilled soloable gear) to be on par with gear from current-content nameds which is why the stats on cultural with the "Solo" level seals are a little disappointing. However why not fix this by introducing some *real* Group-Level Seals?

The names in UF all have a chance of droping special clay that can be used to make the new Group-Level non-cultural armours - why not introduce some extra recipes that enable this clay to be used to make Group-Level Seals for cultural?

Thus we would be able to gradually upgrade our cultural gear as we progress through the Teirs of UF (instead of using cultural armour for the first month, then replacing it with armour from drops, then returning to it when we get raid-clay). So we would have a progression through the seals along the lines of:

• Solo Seals :- 25 Purity, Weak Level Foci (the current Soloist Seals)
• Teir 6 Stellite Seals :- 25 Purity, 5 AC, 50 HEM, Same Level Foci as Stellite Group Armour
• Teir 7 Celestrium Seals :- 25 Purity, 10 AC, 100 HEM, +1 to a couple of Mod2's, Same Level Foci as Celestrium Group Armour
• Teir 8 Vitallium Seal :- 25 Purity, 15 AC, 150 HEM, +1 to a couple of heroics, light scattering of +1's & +2's to Mod2's, Same Level Foci as Vitallium Group Armour
• Teir 9 xxxxxx Seal :- 25 Purity, 20 AC, 200 HEM, light scattering of +1's & +2's to heroics, light scattering of +1's & +2's to Mod2's, Same Level Foci as xxxxxxx Group Armour
• Raid Seal (based on the stats someone linked earlier, so dunno if these are genuine in-game stats yet) :- 25(? or is it 45?) Purity, 45 AC, 595 HEM, numerous heroics & Mod2's, Raid Level Foci.

I believe that this would be a great solution - the raid seal would still be miles ahead of even the highest level group seal, but the group seals would allow the cultural to improve (and stay on par with the gear of the teirs being hunted) as its wearer progresses through the higher teirs and manages to kill more high-teir names.

[Merlaina]

Good idea but...

I really really like that idea Telorea, but my question is how should they handle the tradeability of those seals? As it stands the armor made with the dropped clay (and the clay itself) is no trade. I presume you're thinking they should be no trade and made with amalgimators (or however you spell that)? If so that seems to give potters a kick in the crotch. Perhaps they could require some pottery crafted "template" like what's required for group armor? I'm just thinking out loud here.

The other issue would be how the slot 15 (I think) chest emblem would be affected. Currently their stats are based on how many pieces from a certain tier of armor you're wearing. I would think the new cultural, regardless of seal, would count as the same tier of armor. This wouldn't exactly be fair to those using the non-cultural group versions of the armor made from these clays.

Still, I think that's a brilliant idea and adds a lot of life to the new cultural armor. I only regret no one suggested it sooner, as it sounds like that would take some time to develop and I'd be surprised if they added it outside of an expansion release.

[Telorea]

I really really like that idea Telorea, but my question is how should they handle the tradeability of those seals? As it stands the armor made with the dropped clay (and the clay itself) is no trade. I presume you're thinking they should be no trade and made with amalgimators (or however you spell that)? If so that seems to give potters a kick in the crotch. Perhaps they could require some pottery crafted "template" like what's required for group armor? I'm just thinking out loud here.

Well there are two ways you could do it.

• You could have something similar to what you have now - you need a potter with high skill to make a blank seal for the slot you want - and then you combine the blank seal with the dropped clay and the reagents for the type of focus you want and combine in a Kiln as a no-fail combine (or at least always return the dropped clay on a fail)
• You could add recipes where you craft the soloist clay into a Seal-Frame (container) needing high skill, then fire it needing high skill again - and then the end user puts the dropped clay and the reagents for the type of focus you want and combine into the Seal-Frame and hit combine as a no-fail combine (basically a pottery version of AAAAs).

[Ngreth Thergn]

May I ask what this is hinting at? . UF vendor? Or mob drop?

I left it off vendor. It should be there now.

With the Soloist Seals changed to Req lvl 85 this patch, it is making the cultural armor almost impossible to wear for group casters below lvl 85.

Would you consider changing the Req lvl to 81 to match the Req lvl of the armor and the symbol so that group casters can consider the cultural route at lvl 81?

As it is, cultural armor is technically just for lvl 85s, making the "Req 81" on the armor and the symbol quite meaningless.

I will think about it. It is just that there is stuff that is not as good as this that requires level 85... it seems wrong to have this have a lesser requirement.

[Aldier]

T6 UF group gear from the boomerang events even is required 80, recommended 85 that is better than the required 85 t5 SoD gear.

[Cellan]

I will think about it. It is just that there is stuff that is not as good as this that requires level 85... it seems wrong to have this have a lesser requirement.

Same could be said for the T6 (or Tier1 UF if you call it that too) gear that is 800+ gear and attuneable.

[Cellan]

No chest soloist at this time. I have not decided if I will make one either.

Have you considered a racial specific seal maybe? Could have an effect particular to a race instead of class/deity. I'm sure some races would cry havoc while others rejoice, but from turn to turn the effects could go back and forth between which classes in the race would get the most benefit.

Example:

Troll click = HoT effect
Ogre click = stunning blows
Iksar = AC boost
Dark Elf = critical spell/melee effect
Human = skill boost to all skills
etc etc etc those are just made up whatevers btw .... all short duration and minor enough to not create a panic but still add some flavor to the races.

Just a thought.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Have you considered a racial specific seal maybe? Could have an effect particular to a race instead of class/deity. I'm sure some races would cry havoc while others rejoice, but from turn to turn the effects could go back and forth between which classes in the race would get the most benefit.

Example:

Troll click = HoT effect
Ogre click = stunning blows
Iksar = AC boost
Dark Elf = critical spell/melee effect
Human = skill boost to all skills
etc etc etc those are just made up whatevers btw .... all short duration and minor enough to not create a panic but still add some flavor to the races.

Just a thought.

interesting thought. That would be difficult to balance :/ the class BP's already take forever to balance :/

[Zopharr]

Example:

Troll click = HoT effect
Ogre click = stunning blows
Iksar = AC boost.

Dwarves....alcohol tolerance? <grin>

Would be interesting. I'd prefer a class-based click, but that would still be something.

[Cellan]

interesting thought. That would be difficult to balance :/ the class BP's already take forever to balance :/

Ya, I realize that and don't really have any expectations. Just wanted to throw out some food for thought, if anything for the future. It would bring back race dynamics to some minor degree at the least though.

[Merlaina]

Race balance

I agree. I liked that there were some differences in the old cultural armors, such as high elf cultural chain could be worn by int casters, and erudite tailors could tailor plate armor. While I realize that the cultural now is fair for everyone, and surely much easier to implement and develop from the SOE side, it's also very cookie cutter. I think racial seals with different effects would be neat. Throw caution to the wind and don't worry about making everything perfectly balanced. It'll add flavor. Just remember that Erudites are awesome and deserve the best effect.

On an unrelated note, any chance the required level for the venerable augment book quest could be lowered to 81? Yes, I know I'm taking an "I will think about it" inch from the seals post and turning it into a yard, but it just makes sense to me that if it's required level 81 for the augs shouldn't it be required level 81 to be able to get the quest to make them? I'm sure there is a large number of players, myself included, in their 80s not wanting to rush to 85 just so they can make these symbols (or use the seals). I like to progress slowly, and while I'm all for putting the rare and valuable tradeskill drops on harder mobs, I don't like the idea of the quests being (arguably) unreasonably level restricted. I understand you don't want a level 10 tagging along with a group of 85s and having them do all the heavy lifting, but we're talking about killing mobs that are totally appropriate for a group of level 80 toons... maybe even well coordinated high 70s.

[Zopharr]

we're talking about killing mobs that are totally appropriate for a group of level 80 toons... maybe even well coordinated high 70s.

Gold golems at 80 ... <shudder> ....