Hopes for Underfoot

[road dog]

omg you'd quit eq if you saw the bazaar on test ,,its barren no ts supplies at all

[pandax]

Great another tradeskill quest that requires me to have all 7 skills over 200 for me to even try. Lets get real, drop the requirement to 200 for all 7 skills, make the mobs semi-hard (something that requires a solid group at most) and a few (3 or less) a pick up raid in a open zone (i.e. non-instanced).

Make the trivials around 250 or 270, something not inpossible with a 200 skill, a 5% trophy, and AA's to boost your chance. If your doing better skill wise, awsome, still not a guaranteed success!

meh, first few levels should be sub 200.

Last combine should be 290 across the board

Those TS's aren't terribly hard to max out nowadays anyhow..... although I have yet to start archery, LOL.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Really. You are not going to be doing the shawl if you are not high enough level to easilly have the 18 AA's needed to get all your skills to 300.

I can consider it at 200... but really... it is about your character, in game, being an master tradeskiller... and it is water under the bridge at this point, being that requires that you have spent the 18 AA's

The shawl quest should be in the "second" phase release of Underfoot. (March or April)

The 7ths step results in a shawl better than any group item in the game, even better than the best group items in underfoot.

The 8th step... "Raid", is no longer even tradeskills... It is just to do a favor for brell, that will result in you being given a raid item. That favor is to bring the head of a particular adversary that happens to be a raid kill. So it is lore explanation behind proving that you are a raider capable of defeating the end raid of the expansion. This prof and your previous work on the shawl will give you the raid version of the item.

[Aldier]

No change to ac when swapping in Trail rations.

[Sharrien]

The 8th step... "Raid", is no longer even tradeskills... It is just to do a favor for brell, that will result in you being given a raid item. That favor is to bring the head of a particular adversary that happens to be a raid kill.

So, will just one drop per kill or multiples?

J/K! :P

[Ngreth Thergn]

No change to ac when swapping in Trail rations.

Sad Ogur

So, will just one drop per kill or multiples?

J/K! :P

:P

[AbyssalMage]

At a time when you could get 1 skill to 250 and the other 6 could only go to 200 and there were no AA, having a 200 trivial combine in shawl 6 when we did not have the tradeskill UI to tell us the exact trivial, we had to work them out from skilling up til we received the message it was trivial WAS the challenge not the drop rate. Granted you could farm 4, 5, 6, sets of combines and attempt over and over hoping to get lucky...

...300 skill requires you to spend 18 aa. Sorry if that seems OVERLY burdensome.

First..sorry for the delay to the response, RL got in the way and got distracted doing other things.

How is it challenging to "add a bunch of material" into a container and press combine...then read...you succeded/failed/can't raise your skill any further?

The challenge of the shawel was collecting the parts. Getting your tradeskills to a respectable level was more of an after thought so you didn't have to drag a group back to your camp to do it all over again. Heck, I remember bringing my containers to the camp simply because it was simpler to "know if I failed I needed another one." I "got lucky" on many of my combines, but I also put in my time at both the camps and at the TS containers. I also remember many of the drops weren't automatic and some parts were down right dangerouse to do solo.

Reading a screen that says...
"You increased your skill" followed by "You can't use this combine to get better" isn't a challenge, its just mind numbing. The same mind-numbness that you felt when you had to individually add every ingrediant into a container and hit combine for the 100th time. And if you forgot an ingrediant or put an extra ingrediant in, you got FAILURE. That isn't challenge...

Your right, 18 AA's isn't alot...I can knock that out in 2-3 days of casual playing.

But what should I sacrifice to get those 18 AA's?
I have defensive, offensive, and utility AA's groups expect me to bring to the table when I join them. Not to mention AA's that lower timer's to my offensive, defensive, and utilty AA's so that, again, I can do my job better in a group!

Yes, when your at the 1.5k or 2k AA mark you can afford to spend AA's on Tradeskill AA's and indeed I have spent AA's in salvage just because I was tired of losing time consuming parts to failures...

But again, the game is everQUEST not everAlternateAdvancement. I don't see how "getting lucky on a combine" is a bad thing, but thats my opinion.

SoF Eron's required 250 in all tradeskills. Cultural armor has skill requirements to it. To make Elaborate is 275, Elegant 300. POP had locked tradeskill skill recipes. Aid Grimel required combines that you were a certain skill level to attempt. This is not a NEW concept.

The last tradeskill item required 250 in all skills and had 400 trivial combines.

And yet you forget so munch in a short time(Or you forgot to proof read your own statement)....

Cultural Armour had 0 required skill to it. In fact, it had 0 required skill until Ngreth did the revamp during the SoF release(Pretty sure DoDh - TBS it was 0 skill but could be wrong). So overnite (err...patch) people went from being able to make this armour with out AA's to not being able to (I was one of them). I don't remember many people doing the Aid Grimmel quest from PoP. I'm sure Sony has a way to track those kind of things so I wont make assumptions about it. I do know that the Eron's jewlery was mostly a failure though on Prexus at least. Yes, some people did it because it was a quest, but many people quit long before finishing it b/c they got better(or equivelent) by just killing a mob.

The new one, the trivial are probably going to be over 400 based on trending upwards. There is no reason, imo, someone who is not a master at their craft should be able to create this masterpiece by farming enough pieces and "getting lucky".

Just to help you out (Using site calculator)...

A) 200 skill + 5% mod + 400 (Or better trivial) = 5% chance of success
B) 200 skill + 15% mod + 400(Or better trivial) = 5% chance of success

A + Mastery 3** = 30% chance
B + Mastery 3** = 40% chance

**Mastery only works for one tradeskill so thats more AA's you would have to buy

So, doing your homework...You'll need to kill 100 (Mastery = more AA's and I'm talking about no Tradeskill AA's here) of the same NPC to get a reasonable chance at success(Assuming said NPC drops it every time. Multiply that times 7 new steps and thats 700 kills (Minimum). Add in killing PH'ers, raising your skills to 200 (more time consuming that anything in todays EQ), finding a group to trudge to your camp (These can't be solo'd or boxed, remember), Finding/forming a raid (my suggestion, not what was implemented), and "getting lucky" doesn't sound "Half bad".

(Yes getting the 18 AA's to raise every skill above 200 would be wiser than purchasing Mastery AAs)

I know EQ doesn't follow "real life" but people with moderate skill can make some very nice stuff with preciouse gems and metal. Yes, sometimes they do get lucky and "happen upon that once in a lifetime best seller" but it does happen. Not every jewler works at one of the top end cutting facilities. Mabye thats why I don't see "getting lucky" as so outragouse. People do it in real life every day and their not grande masters...Their just people who have some skill doing something they like.

[Cellan]

then go out grouping and camping a shoulder item if you don't want to put effort into tradeskills.

Artisan quests are for people that have invested their time, plat, patience, and repeat those 3 a thousand more times into their skills .... and 18 AAs to ice the cake..... then we do it again for our trophy to evolve.

if you want something you can just camp and get exp and other drops with and walk away with a grandmaster TS item then what's the point? maybe you didn't work up your skills for doing shawl 8, but that doesn't speak for an overwhelming majority of the people that have. So yeah, we will be camping the drops again all the same, we will be failing combines again all the same ... the difference is that a skill level going to be required to attempt it.

maybe clicking a tradeskill container and reading the result isn't seen as a challenge. it isn't much different than casting a spell and seeing if a mob dies, taunting and seeing if a mob turns to you, casting a heal and seeing if a tank lives. it's all pushing buttons really..... but anyways.

[AbyssalMage]

then go out grouping and camping a shoulder item if you don't want to put effort into tradeskills.

Like you said, I want to put the effort into the tradeskill....NOT the AA

Artisan quests are for people that have invested their time, plat, patience, and repeat those 3 a thousand more times into their skills .... and 18 AAs to ice the cake..... then we do it again for our trophy to evolve.

And I'm expaining that the Artisan quest line is isolating the playing community instead of including the playing community. The same that raiders for years complained that groupers shouldn't get anything similiar to them. Today, raiders and groupers have seen alot more parity. Removing the "required" skill will allow more parity. It doesn't mean that they will be equall unless they spend 100's of hours more time on the same thing (As explained in my prior post)

if you want something you can just camp and get exp and other drops with and walk away with a grandmaster TS item then what's the point? maybe you didn't work up your skills for doing shawl 8, but that doesn't speak for an overwhelming majority of the people that have. So yeah, we will be camping the drops again all the same, we will be failing combines again all the same ... the difference is that a skill level going to be required to attempt it.

Umm...unless you raised your skills before all the revamps, how exactly did you raise your skill? You killed mobs...You attempted combines...You gained a grandmaster TS item. So if I don't spend AA's "I'm less that the Master Artisans?" I'm sure if I attempt a master TS and fail hundred's of times before success, I will get the same joy as you did when you spent the AA's and did the hundred's of combines. The joy is the same, the journey is different.

maybe clicking a tradeskill container and reading the result isn't seen as a challenge. it isn't much different than casting a spell and seeing if a mob dies, taunting and seeing if a mob turns to you, casting a heal and seeing if a tank lives. it's all pushing buttons really..... but anyways.

I was simply responding to his post that "the challenge of tradeskills" before the new UI was finding the trivial. That was the whole point of the comment. Pressing buttons isn't a challenge like you so elegantly put.

I simply would like tradeskilling to be more inclusive for the majority of the EQ community. Excluding someone because they don't meet certain criteria isn't inclusive. This is how it was before PoP, before the first of these quest lines were put in during PoP. Yes, on this board, you the tradeskiller are the majority, but you are not the EQ majority for who I am speaking for.

[Aldier]

I was simply responding to his post that "the challenge of tradeskills" before the new UI was finding the trivial. That was the whole point of the comment. Pressing buttons isn't a challenge like you so elegantly put.

Then you completely missed the point I was trying to make.

[Perseverence Rewarded]

Well I destroyed my shawl 4 or 5 years ago to make room for higher level tradeskill items. I hope there is a script to have it restored.
I guess soloing the shawl again shouldn't be to difficult at 85th level.

[Aldier]

Send in a petition and GMs have been refunding them.

[Cellan]

.... lots of stuf ....

AAs are required for lots of content that if you don't have you won't be doing the content. Unless you're getting handfed EQ by uber friends of course.

Master Artisan is an accomplishment, moreso by those that made the 2100 club prior to the global drop system in place now. Do not trivialize your 100 attempts for luck to the 2000+ that a master of the skill does to go from 200 to 300 then evolve a trophy in addition to the failures that will be encountered attempting this new shawl. They are not even in the same league as each other.

1 tradeskill quest in the entire expansion isn't isolating anything. It will be accomplished with drops from groups and raid content. Tradeskillers happen to be groupers and raiders even so! Noone that did the Eron's series in SoF was a black sheep in EQ, nor an elitist all the same. Just someone that did tradeskills and did a quest that others didn't.

Not all rewards from an expansion are meant for everyone. The game is inclusive enough and this 1, single, sole, only, unique quest isn't something to cry foul about.

[AbyssalMage]

AAs are required for lots of content that if you don't have you won't be doing the content. Unless you're getting handfed EQ by uber friends of course.

Excluding Underfoot...
You needed 0 AA's to 85 unless you were a Tank or Druid. Yes you sucked, but I don't know how many PL'd toons (Especially Wizards) I saw in the last year w/0 AA's at level 85 easily getting groups in Kora simply cause they were 85. Many players want people who have AA's and thats why we group with regulars...But many on this board probally grouped with PL'd toons who were 85 and had less than 12 aa's. (This also lead to my statement about were I fit my 18 AA's in if I'm 1.5k AA or less because unlike some, I don't like leaving a group shafted.)

Master Artisan is an accomplishment, moreso by those that made the 2100 club prior to the global drop system in place now. Do not trivialize your 100 attempts for luck to the 2000+ that a master of the skill does to go from 200 to 300 then evolve a trophy in addition to the failures that will be encountered attempting this new shawl. They are not even in the same league as each other.

Yes, getting to 300 is always an accomplishment. I would say though if you received the title after the initial tradeskill revamp and before global drops but thats symantics.

Ummm...100 attempts...did you read everything I wrote. Those 100 attempts easily blows your 2000 combines you did from bazaar bought/guild given combines (With the exception of Fletching). So, yes I can easily compare the 2 combines...

1 tradeskill quest in the entire expansion isn't isolating anything. It will be accomplished with drops from groups and raid content. Tradeskillers happen to be groupers and raiders even so! Noone that did the Eron's series in SoF was a black sheep in EQ, nor an elitist all the same. Just someone that did tradeskills and did a quest that others didn't.

Not all rewards from an expansion are meant for everyone. The game is inclusive enough and this 1, single, sole, only, unique quest isn't something to cry foul about.

A quest that will offer the best ITEM (stated by Ngreth himself) for shoulder slot if your a master TS'er and Raider...If that doesn't sound like an Eletist item, I don't know what does to you. This is setting a precedent just like the first quests in PoP did way back when. The only difference between then and now is someone (Me, and I'm sure people have spoken out against these lines of quests in the past) is speaking out against having a AA/skill requirement tied to doing these kind of quests. Back then until now, I didn't care...The items were comparable to items that dropped. And I'm sure that the final Coldian shoulders will only be a min/max thing as I dounbt the itemization people will allow Ngreth to introduce an item with stats too munch greater than what will drop w/out doing the quest.

Like I said, the game is about questing, not what AA"s you bought. When you make your cultural armour, weapons, food/drink, potions, charms, and/or power sources to sell to guildies, friends, and bazaar, that is fine to have a requirement on the minimum skill (Although lowering the skill required to do 65-75 Armour/weapons would be nice, say a 250-310 skill...)

I also know that these quests lines were put in for/because of the players on these boards...But another item/quest could of been introduced so that the Shawl could of been open to everyone like the original.

[pandax]

wow, whine much? This goes to show that people will whine and cry no matter what you do.

Hell, even today with the much easier system, getting to 300 in ANY skill is way more work than grinding out 18 easy AA's Heck, I got 18 AA's today in about 45 minutes of grinding without breaking a sweat.

OMG WHINE MOAN EVERQUEST IS TEH EVILS NOW BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO 45 MINUTES OF EXP GRINDING FOR A QUEST OF EPIC PROPORTIONS!!!!!1!1!!1one

Oh, and would you seriously group with someone at 85 if you knew before hand that they had no AA's? I run a parser constantly and after about 5 mobs it's real obvious what's going on and they get their asses dropped from my group FAST.