LoN and Station Cash vs tradeskills?

[Jidokwon]

We've seen some serious integrity lost in other areas with these additions. Will they soon be adding premium only tradeskill content? Premium only zone keys that will have key recipe drops in those zones?

[mewkus]

If by premium you mean for those who bought the latest expansion, then yes. When they come out with new expansions, only those people who give SOE their RL dollars get to enjoy the drops/recipes from those new expansions.

[Jidokwon]

No, not referring to expansions or regular play at all. The LoN/Station Cash trend is begining to worry me, though. Legends server had premium content and services, but it was limited to their server. I don't consider having the current expansions being premium.

I get a little worried when I see EQ developers comment on dropping EQ content due to class balancing issues, then seeing things in LoN or Station Cash only counter that balance. Take illusions not being developed in EQ for the sake of enchanters. But continue to develop them in LoN only? That's where the integrity to EQ is lost. I guess it's ok to step on enchanters if you can buy booster packs?

So I'm wondering how far this will go. Will zone keys, similar to mmm/crystallos soon be available only through Station Cash? Or even a whole expansion bought only through Station Cash for $400? So far I haven't seen any additions that are focused against the tradeskill community, but if the trend continues, we very well might.

[mewkus]

So, explain to me again the difference between
A) paying RL cash for an expansion that has new spells and content unavailable to those who don't pay the RL cash
B) paying RL cash for a station cash item that would have new spells and content unavailable to those who don't pay the RL cash (if they were to expand station cash as you fear they will).

Would the Underfoot expansion if bought directly from either retailer or SOE be different then if it were bought via station cash?

Don't get me wrong in assuming that I'm trying to say that station cash is ok because it's not any different than buying an expansion. Personally, I'd rather just pay an extra $2-$3 per month per account and have micro expansions (three to four zones and/or 2-3 level cap increase and/or new something else) every two or three months than a big mongo expense every 6 or 12 months that makes a big line of separation between those who buy it and those who don't.

The problem with this approach is that we all know it'll end up similar to their excuse for when they raised the price from $10/month. At the time the price increase was so they they could maintain and improve things like their customer support and ensure that they'd have an ample supply of GMs for each server, etc, etc.

[AbyssalMage]

The problem with this approach is that we all know it'll end up similar to their excuse for when they raised the price from $10/month. At the time the price increase was so they they could maintain and improve things like their customer support and ensure that they'd have an ample supply of GMs for each server, etc, etc.

When ever they say there raising costs to improve game play, it means the exact opposite w/SoE. I'm still waiting on patches to improve older zones (they have announced at this FF they wont do this cause its a waist of resources and money) yet the selling point to the customer was thats what they where going to do when going to 12 month release dates. They also said they would make a better product, well Underfoot proved that wrong cause they took the developers away to do other expansions. Once you quit listening to them, life becomes easier.

/derail off

Now, to the posters original worries, yes, station cash will eventually do what your saying/worrying about. Will it happen while Ngreth is there, probally not, but Ngreth has to support his family just like any other person so if SoE wants it done, he can choose to do it or leave his job. My guess is he'll do it to support the family and break the news to us as gently as one could.

LoN has officially runed illusion clickies, mainly making only those who buy into their deception able to receive the rewards. Thoss of us wanting in game clickies to drop w/out having to buy packs can't. Mabye this trend will reverse but who knows (Note: Bards and Rogues are also effected by this as they used clicky illusions just as munch as chanties). ANd we wont even talk about what KISS did to the game.

ATM, the only thing Station Cash offers is the xp potions and ornemantation. But I expect the familiars and clickies to get a revamp once they want more money funneled into the SOE coffers and xp per mob to drop once again in Underfoot to force people to buy xp potions.

[Zaltak]

Well they did add the robot illusion clicky to tradeskills.Hopefully they will add more of these to other tradeskills:-)

[Gorse]

BLAH BLAH BLAH... Once you quit listening to them, life becomes easier.

The same could be said about listening to posters who choose established, topic specific forums to do their rants, but I digress.

/derail off.

How is this a derail? That is the point of this thread.

LoN has officially runed illusion clickies, mainly making only those who buy into their deception able to receive the rewards.

No one has to buy anything to get LoN rewards. There are plenty of game drops and free packs (but you do actually have to launch LoN to claim them). It's a different venue that can get you neat items if you are lucky. I happened to get lucky and got a minotaur illusion and a 1HS aug. I could have sold them, but opted to keep them.

There are plenty of packs in game (via bazaar) and loot it yourself through farming. Sure it is slow, but there is no change in cost to the player. however, for people that spend money on cards, they are not guaranteed anything for their money.

It's a free system (with option to spend) that offers more opportunities for trinkets. Other than the occational extra item during looting, there is no impact to the player and has opened up other ways for players to get items.



I won't debate because people have been crying the same thing for years about what they have been "promised". Sorry, but the real world keeps your little fantasy world running. It's in game and we deal with it. If SOE can make money off it at the same time, good for them.



Gorse

[AbyssalMage]

The same could be said about listening to posters who choose established, topic specific forums to do their rants, but I digress.

How is this a derail? That is the point of this thread.

Because it wasn't in the correct forum as you stated....And because it wasn't in direct response to the posters question. Thanks for answering your own criticism.

No one has to buy anything to get LoN rewards. There are plenty of game drops and free packs (but you do actually have to launch LoN to claim them). It's a different venue that can get you neat items if you are lucky. I happened to get lucky and got a minotaur illusion and a 1HS aug. I could have sold them, but opted to keep them.

There are plenty of packs in game (via bazaar) and loot it yourself through farming. Sure it is slow, but there is no change in cost to the player. however, for people that spend money on cards, they are not guaranteed anything for their money.

It's a free system (with option to spend) that offers more opportunities for trinkets. Other than the occational extra item during looting, there is no impact to the player and has opened up other ways for players to get items.

Well in order to trade, you must spend money. Other than individual LoN loot cards. I have not seen booster packs drop in game sense the release of the 3rd expansion(Forsworn?). Plenty of packs? The only packs I see in bazaar for sell are the ones that people want 70k+ for and there have been no new traders with new packs, only individual singles. Again, I have seen no new packs drop, and packs are where the illusion clickies, familiars (that give stats), ornamentation, mounts, and clickies (i.e. KISS) can only be obtained. If you have gotten lucky and had a booster pack drop sense Forsworn(?) drop, then gratz.

I won't debate because people have been crying the same thing for years about what they have been "promised". Sorry, but the real world keeps your little fantasy world running. It's in game and we deal with it. If SOE can make money off it at the same time, good for them.

And we are the one in the real world allowing them to make promises and not keep them. Sorry if I am old fashioned and believe someones word is as good as writing. Oh, and they have put it in writing to us...so why shouldn't the players expect them to keep their word. At least when Ngreth says something (as an example) he states he will try and offers no promises. Only that he will look into the matter and see if a resolution can be made. If a resolution is made he lets us know that once its past QA and the coders, it will make it into the game ASAP. He never makes a promise he can't keep and chooses his words as best he can. When a developer states he WILL DO SOMETHING and doesn't, why shouldn't I hold him accountable.

Which leads me to my point. SOE made statements in writing to the player base on what they where going to bring to the table. We as players pay money in recognition that they will do certain things and try to follow through on what they promised. We also understand that there are limitations (coding, resources, "fires") that need to be addressed. But promising to go back on older content to "fix" them and then stating 2 years later you had no intentions of doing such a thing is...welll...disheartning. Promising that you will produce a "finished" product once a year only to tell us you haven't started 5 months before its due to be released and it will be released in segments doesn't help out your "promise" at all.

Players are frustrated, but some, like me, can elaborate why they are frustrated. The only thing your able to do is make fun of me like some 3rd grade school bully. Sorry, I've moved past the 3rd grade school bully and its important for other posters to know they shouldn't be afraid of such childish acts if they can also elaborate their concerns...I encourage them to post! The OP had a valid question and concern. I responded to his posting (with a slight derail that I could of just as easlily deleted before submitting but decided it could offer some use to him and others. Mabye incorrectly in retrospect) Nothing I stated or what he asked was incorrect. SOE made it very public that illusion clickies would be done away with (thats why Rogues/Bards can't find an illusion clicky Drakkin other than potions that are all/all. i.e. anyone can use 'em.) yet LoN introduced a whole crap load of them. If you wanna do your research before spouting out crap, look at the rogue boards about it, some where livid about all the new LoN illusion clickies.

[Jidokwon]

Thank you, AbyssalMage, you summed up some of my concerns nicely.

What's about to happen with the newly revamped poison making is something I'll be watching closely. I've been running some tests and logs and was told they are about to patch poison as it was intended to be used (You'll need to use 75th level poison to do 75th level content basically). For this example, I'm expecting to see some serious tweaking to the drop rates, failures, and such *in Everquest* if these newly revamped poisons are going to see any use. If changes are made *in Everquest*, my fears are unfounded. If we see working poison added to Station Cash, however, this one example is how it can effect the tradeskill community.

[Ngreth Thergn]

and xp per mob to drop once again in Underfoot to force people to buy xp potions.

I should not even respond to this.

SoD offers more exp per kill.

BUT the mobs are just so much harder to kill, that the exp ends up being less per effort. It was not an intentional reduction in exp gained.

And why not raise the exp in SoD since it is harder? because eventually it will not be hard and we would end up with another Plane of Fire where people use it FAR past its time because it BECAME easy exp due to an overly high exp modifier.

[beryon]

SoD offers more exp per kill.

BUT the mobs are just so much harder to kill, that the exp ends up being less per effort. It was not an intentional reduction in exp gained.

And why not raise the exp in SoD since it is harder? because eventually it will not be hard and we would end up with another Plane of Fire where people use it FAR past its time because it BECAME easy exp due to an overly high exp modifier.

Doesn't leaving it this way exacerbate the situation? As it stands now, older content provides better xp, which sounds like what you're trying to avoid. If time spent per kill is not being factored in properly, this will only be more of a problem in the next expansion, when there's no level increase to force obsoletion of old content.

[AbyssalMage]

I should not even respond to this.

SoD offers more exp per kill.

BUT the mobs are just so much harder to kill, that the exp ends up being less per effort. It was not an intentional reduction in exp gained.

And why not raise the exp in SoD since it is harder? because eventually it will not be hard and we would end up with another Plane of Fire where people use it FAR past its time because it BECAME easy exp due to an overly high exp modifier.

Thanks for responding Ngreth. Brings up a whole slew of other questions but at least your straight with us and I appreciate it TONS!

Back to the original post:
Checked in Buyer mode sense last posting. I have confirmed that you can no longer buy *newer* booster packs in game. The only way to get "newer" mounts, ornamentation, illusions, and items is by playing and buying LoN packs. You can no longer find "new" booster packs dropping. So if you want that cool dragon illusion, play or buy LoN packs.

P.S. "Newer" is defined as any LoN expansion later than original release + Oathbound, Forsworne, and ???(forget the name of the other one). And this is all accurate as of the posting. I can't predict what SoE will do tomorrow.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Thanks for responding Ngreth. Brings up a whole slew of other questions but at least your straight with us and I appreciate it TONS!

Back to the original post:
Checked in Buyer mode sense last posting. I have confirmed that you can no longer buy *newer* booster packs in game. The only way to get "newer" mounts, ornamentation, illusions, and items is by playing and buying LoN packs. You can no longer find "new" booster packs dropping. So if you want that cool dragon illusion, play or buy LoN packs.

P.S. "Newer" is defined as any LoN expansion later than original release + Oathbound, Forsworne, and ???(forget the name of the other one). And this is all accurate as of the posting. I can't predict what SoE will do tomorrow.

you get 5 free packs... um I forget the interval. It might be monthly I think. You DO have to log into the card game to get these free packs.

[Mitsune Foxfire]

you get 5 free packs... um I forget the interval. It might be monthly I think. You DO have to log into the card game to get these free packs.

Some info for all those not playing LoN or collecting the free cards:
- Yes, you do get 5 free packs every month and you have to log in to claim them. If you don't log in for a month, you will get the free ones for the current month but the old ones are gone.
- One important thing: All the cards you get for free are NON-tradeable. You can claim loot cards from those free packs only on the same SOE account.
- The 5 packs will yield about two loot cards in three months (at least that's what I got on average over a year with two accounts).

You will get even more loot cards for free if you decide to play LoN scenarios (that means you play against a computer opponent in a defined scenario). There are expansion quest scenario sets with ~15 scenarios yielding ~5 loot cards while you beat them one after another. There are also special scenarios that have loot cards. All those scenarios can be played with the free starter pack you got + the free booster pack cards you collect every month.

So, just to sum this up: For ZERO cash investment in LoN you can get:
~8 loot cards per year for just logging in once a month.
~30 loot cards per year for just logging in once a month and beating all scenarios.

[Mitsune Foxfire]

LoN has officially runed illusion clickies, mainly making only those who buy into their deception able to receive the rewards. Thoss of us wanting in game clickies to drop w/out having to buy packs can't. Mabye this trend will reverse but who knows (Note: Bards and Rogues are also effected by this as they used clicky illusions just as munch as chanties).

I play a rogue for 8.5 years now but I fail to see how the new masks have ruined my illusion clickies. I can get the loot cards for free (monthly free packs and scenarios) or I can trade them for "old" dropped booster packs. And some of them I will most likely never get, just the same as with the old masks in EQ (some no longer drop, some need more firepower to get than I can provide). And collecting them all would only lead to problems with you bag space.