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  • Confirmation of stupid question about skill ups

    This is a stupid question and I am sure I already know the answer. However, I'm looking for confirmation that I am indeed thinking correctly on this.

    While it is possible to gain a skill up on a failed combine, am I correct in believing that you stand a greater chance of gaining a skill up on successful combines?

  • #2
    That's correct. Your chance to get a skillup is roughly doubled on a success, compared to a fail.
    Sir KyrosKrane Sylvanblade
    Master Artisan (300 + GM Trophy in all) of Luclin (Veeshan)
    Master Fisherman (200) and possibly Drunk (2xx + 20%), not sober enough to tell!
    Lightbringer, Redeemer, and Valiant servant of Erollisi Marr

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    • #3
      Thank you.. I thought so, but had to confirm it.

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      • #4
        The chance to gain a skill up on a failure is based on your primary stat, wis or int, or for some skills, str or dex, and is dependent on which tradeskill you are talking about.

        You can never get your chance of a skill up on a failure to go higher than your chance of a skill up on a success, but you can get it to the point that it is the same chance of a skill up on a failure as a success.

        Some tradeskills you can achieve this, some you cannot.
        Shawlweaver Sphynx on Cazic Thule
        Master Artisan Aldier on Cazic Thule

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        • #5
          Hrm.. i'll have to figgure out the forumlas then. I have my primary stat being Int at 270 (would be higher if i lvl up to 64 and beyond) so it's maxed right now for my lvl. (and AAs).

          As for which skill.. thinking of different skills.. or all skills in general.. JC and Spell Reserach are a couple i'm working on now, but others will follow suit in due time.

          It's nice to know i can even the odds of a skillup.. Sometimes I wonder if the colors on the recipe trivials work similar to regular con colors.

          You stand a better chance of getting skill ups using mele or spells on mobs that con blue than those that con green or light blue. I wonder if it's the same with tradeskills. If you do a recipe that shows up blue in the contanier window, you stand a better chance of getting a skillup than if you did one that was gray or light blue.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Aldier View Post
            You can never get your chance of a skill up on a failure to go higher than your chance of a skill up on a success, but you can get it to the point that it is the same chance of a skill up on a failure as a success.
            Can you elaborate on this? What does the stat need to be at to even out this chance? I suppose I shouldn't care since I maxed all my core TS but I might do tinkering some day
            Master Artisan Lemamas Half`Elven of Povar
            300 Smith - 300 Tailor - 300 Brewer - 300 Baker - 300 Potter - 300 Jeweler - 300 Fletcher
            Povar Server
            Final Empire
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            • #7
              215 int/wis/ for Research
              400 int/wis/str for Blacksmithing
              400 int/wis/dex for Make Poison
              415 int/wis for Tailoring/Tinkering

              The rest are out of reach, requiring 600 or more.

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              • #8
                There are some other threads I would have to try and dig around for with all the numbers.

                Also, with heroic stats and level increases, you will be seeing people with 600 stats by the next expansion if not sooner.

                Found the list:

                Originally posted by Twistagain
                Alchemy 815
                Baking 615
                Brewing 615
                Fletching 800
                Jewelcrafting 815
                Poison Making 400
                Pottery 815
                Smithing 400
                Spell Research 215
                Tailoring 415
                Tinkering 415
                Last edited by Aldier; 05-14-2008, 07:53 PM.
                Shawlweaver Sphynx on Cazic Thule
                Master Artisan Aldier on Cazic Thule

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                • #9
                  I dont know about that. I'm a raider and I'm at 503 int now. I would need a heck of a lot of heroic int to reach 600. Even with 25 from a level cap increase and 25 from more AA.

                  Sure you will hit 600 str/dex with Focus (shaman buff) but smithing and poison making are already reachable and fletching is still way out at 800.
                  Last edited by Qaladar Bragollach; 05-15-2008, 02:23 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Still leaves me with my second question from above.

                    I have seen in the past that getting skill ups on say.. one handed bash, was always easier when fighting a yellow con mob, as opposed to fighting a green con mob.

                    Does this translate to tradeskills as well? Does doing combines who's trivials are further away increase chance of a skill up versus doing combines that trivial just a few steps away?

                    Does anyone know how the chance of getting a skill up on a paticular combine is calculated?

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                    • #11
                      Playing around with the calculator on eqtraders, I see that the chance of skillups don't change from trivial when your prime stat is higher than the list above (spell crafting paticularly) but does drop with the chance of success when the primary stat is lower than the cap listed earlier in this post (jewelcrafting is what i checked).

                      So obviously for best method of skilling up is to go step by step and do recipes who's trivial is just barely over your skill, as opposed to making a leap for trivials that are further away.

                      But it still makes me currious as to how the chance of skill up is calculated.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Morpheaous View Post
                        Still leaves me with my second question from above.

                        Does anyone know how the chance of getting a skill up on a paticular combine is calculated?
                        Expanding, I have been reflecting on this question. Back when trophies were new, we heard that the rate at which trophies advanced was determined on how difficult the materials were to collect. That is, are the components merchant items or dropped from rare, nasty mobs. (Of course, the trivials needed/need to be above raw skill level also.) These days, it seems that concept has gone bye bye, or perhaps never did exist. In summary, then, what factor(s) influences the rate at which trophies skill up?

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                        • #13
                          when you make a successful combine, the trophy gets EXP = to the trivial of the item. So higher trivial items give more exp.

                          BUT...

                          Any trivial over 350 is converted to 350

                          if the trivial is more than 100 over your REAL skill... you get no exp for the trophy.

                          And then if for some oddball reason you get ahead of the trophy a multiplier of at least 11x (more if you are way ahead) is applied to the exp.
                          Ngreth Thergn

                          Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
                          Grandmaster Smith 250
                          Master Tailor 200
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paloverde View Post
                            Expanding, I have been reflecting on this question. Back when trophies were new, we heard that the rate at which trophies advanced was determined on how difficult the materials were to collect. That is, are the components merchant items or dropped from rare, nasty mobs. (Of course, the trivials needed/need to be above raw skill level also.) These days, it seems that concept has gone bye bye, or perhaps never did exist. In summary, then, what factor(s) influences the rate at which trophies skill up?
                            That's taken into account on a skill basis not on individual combines. For example tailoring is generally much harder to skill up than baking. Therefore the baking trophy gets less exp per combine (about 1100 successful 350+ combines from level 6 to leve 7) than the tailoring trophy (about 400 combines for the same gain) does.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Qaladar Bragollach View Post
                              That's taken into account on a skill basis not on individual combines. For example tailoring is generally much harder to skill up than baking. Therefore the baking trophy gets less exp per combine (about 1100 successful 350+ combines from level 6 to leve 7) than the tailoring trophy (about 400 combines for the same gain) does.
                              Well not that it gets less experience, simply it requires MORE experience to evolve.

                              Fletching, last I checked, would take about 400 successes of 350+ trivials to evolve from level 6 to 7. That means the amount of experience required for that item is 140,000.

                              Baking, because the parts are easier to collect, takes closer to 1000 successes of 350+ trivials to evolve. That means the baking trophy requires 350,000 experience. Again, since I used 335 trivial combines (for ease of collection of parts) and accounting for failure rates I do not have exact numbers, but these numbers show the difference.

                              The decision as to how difficult the parts are to collect and thus how much exp the trophy requires to evolve were set by Ngreth when he created the trophies (and I think adjusted once to account for the dramatic change to smithing/tailoring skill ups).

                              Originally posted by Ngreth Thergn
                              Any trivial over 350 is converted to 350

                              if the trivial is more than 100 over your REAL skill... you get no exp for the trophy.

                              And then if for some oddball reason you get ahead of the trophy a multiplier of at least 11x (more if you are way ahead) is applied to the exp.
                              Because of the rounding of all 350+ trivials = 350, it results in 250 skill having all non-trivial combines as options.

                              Also, if by some oddball reason your trophy gets ahead of you, it will stop at the next level above you and wait for you to catch up.
                              ex. Trophy evolves to master level when you are at 290 skill, it will sit at 6/7 0% until you reach 300 skill.
                              Last edited by Aldier; 05-18-2008, 02:14 PM.
                              Shawlweaver Sphynx on Cazic Thule
                              Master Artisan Aldier on Cazic Thule

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