Bazaar 500 Trader Limit - Should EQ follow UO's Example

[brildayr]

Ok, crash after 2 hours thing is not only a bad idea, but completely wrong. I have to agree with the above posts that tend to prove you wrong. I really like the drop down and last 10 items searched thing. I also like the idea about removing avatars completely, kind of.

If we remove the avatars it kind of takes you out of the game. If the trials area bazaar works then that will basically eliminates the lag, or at least drastically reduces it. Anyone caught troll/gnome camping should be banned. PERIOD. Best idea for the bazaar is that your avatar is automatically shrunk when you zone into the bazar or when it goes into trader mode. Sorry fatties, but joo too big.

Now, for something that most traders will hate me for...

EQ players outside of the US please ignore this, but at least you will know where I'm coming from if you do read this. In the US, price fixing is illegal, period. Its a form of a monoply. So, imho, someone coming online and setting the prices lower than you is their choice and right to do so. Just because a few tradeskillers decide that they don't want to wait weeks or days to make a profit is their right and choice. I believe that the traderskillers getting together and "setting: a price is inherently wrong. Sorry, but thats just the way I grew up. I personally make sure I have low prices on my stuff. I get a thrill out of seeing someone come by my stall and get a good deal. Most of the time you can tell just by looking at their gear (without inspecting even) whether you just gave a good price to a newb (or at least not as advanced in the game) for a nice item. Maybe I'm not the richest player in the game, but I have fun. I also seem to manage to have some cash on me to buy a few items.

I do have one exception, maybe this makes me a hypocrit. I think it's just not right, might not be wrong, but still not right, to undercut by a few plat. Be bold and independent, if you want to sell lower, just do it. Don't try to "butt in line" by offering the same item for just 1pp less, hehe.

[Lilosh]

I do have one exception, maybe this makes me a hypocrit. I think it's just not right, might not be wrong, but still not right, to undercut by a few plat. Be bold and independent, if you want to sell lower, just do it. Don't try to "butt in line" by offering the same item for just 1pp less, hehe.

I have to say, that I do agree that they make you a hyppocryte.

I'll give you an example.

Your example: I am selling Othmir fur caps for 100p. Joey Comes in and prices his at 99p. He is undercutting by 1p, and is understandably a "jerk" for doing so.

You and I are selling Tunarean Scout Tunics. I have mine for 15,000. You have yours for 14,000. You are providing goods for the common man, while Joey is a Jerk?


Nah. Selling for below what the rest of the producers are able to get and what the rest of the producers feel is a fair amount is the same, regardless of how much you do it for. <grin>

Not that it makes you a bad person, but you can't categorize it into "Levels"



-Lilosh

[brildayr]

I'll give you that and your opinion. I still believe that you and Joey and I "setting" a "fair" price is inherently wrong. Where you and I disagree is the "fair amount". I believe you say the amount of the undercut is irrelevant. I say that just because my price is lower doesn't mean I undercut you. It would be the intent, and that is hard to prove.

You saying I undercut you (using your example) is making a wide, sweeping and inaccurate statement about how I do my business. Undercutting by 1pp is self-evident undercutting. Just because you want to make X amount of dollars is no reason that I HAVE to. If I figure how much it cost me to make, figure out the cost of my time and then price it accordingly (and this would be strictly up to each tradeskiller and his/her opinion) and it happens to be a lower price than what you and/or anyone else sells it for, thats free trade in operation.

Also, just because I don't hop on the tradeskillers' monoply bandwagon and price my goods at quote "what the rest of the producers feel is a fair amount" unquote, makes me the bad guy?

I would agree that me logging on and strictly/purposely pricing it lower than anyone else (no matter what the noble intent) is undercutting no matter what the amount of the undercut is. I do concede that part of the argument

Imho, I think that trying to make up all of the time and plat I spent in getting my smithing up to where it is in just a few trades is wrong, but that's just my opinion. Something that costs me about 2-5Kpp to make and then charging 50Kpp for it, I just won't do. Thats just me.

Also, I will probably get to max (with geerlock device) in less than 50Kpp total spent. I spent a lot of time gathering/farming, but I'll make that worthwhile selling without having to charge imho huge prices.

Btw, thanks for the discussion. I like to see other people's views

[Quinner Sparrowhawk]

Some of the angst in undercutting also comes from the relative value of the crafted good versus comparable farmed goods. Suppose I spend hours farming components to make Little Uber BP's similar to Emerald Dragonscale Tunics selling for 10k on my server. I price them between 8k and 12k, expecting that to be the relative value. If Joeafktrader comes along and prices his or her Little Uber BP's at 5k, I will be annoyed and feel as though I am being undercut.

And what really adds injury to insult is when individual are selling the components for the Little Uber BP's at a total cost of 5K. If I haven't farmed the goods myself, Joeafktrader is guaranteeing that I can't make a profit for my labors and will be losing money.

The general consensus seems to be that some logic and sense be incorporated into pricing goods. Don't wreck the market for everyone else by being ignorant to the economics of EQ.

[brildayr]

If the buyer thinks its a good value, he's going to buy it. If the seller isn't making a profit off of it, he's not going to bother with it.

Using your example, if the costs are 5Kpp no seller is going to sell it for that amount. He's going to try and make some type of profit. This gets us back to the original problem/disagreement as to what is the "proper" mark up for an item. As I stated earlier, figure out your costs, and then price it accordingly. If a buyer decides that your pricing has value, then you are a successful seller. If not, maybe you need to rethink what a proper profit margin is for you to become successful. You seem to have missed that part of my reply.

Just because someone wants to make X amount of plat off of items, or thinks they deserve to, doesn't mean that you, I, anyone else, nor any group (tradeskillers' monoply) has the right to try to force that on the rest of the EQ community. What you perceive as ignorance, I submit is arrogance that someone or a group of people thinks they can decide what is or isn't proper pricing. Especially if they denounce anyone that thinks or does differently.

Just because you or I are annoyed that someone is selling for a lower price than what we "want" to sell if for makes that wrong ? Our wants and desires should become set in stone for the rest of the community ? They should have to comply with what we decide is appropriate ?

[Goresmash]

Could they not just impliment the trader code in each of the cities with an area that you could setup your vendor? That way not everyone will be crowded into one zone, and thus taking a bunch of load off of the bazaar.

[brildayr]

IF your idea includes making so I can buy from you in Halas while I'm in Neriak, that would be fine with me.

[Tydarius]

Bah...here's my 2cp on a quick fix...

They should Just allow us to set up our characters as vendors in the East Commonlands - as everyone sold there before (I miss those days of yelling and shouting over the gamblers of the tunnel... :evil: ), Or maybe they could set up a small area in each starting city (I've seen this mentioned somewhere on the boards a long time ago, by a player, not Sony) just for traders, would be nice..

I understand that it would require alot of traveling just to find products you want, but at least it solves the issue of trader space real fast, and probably could be looked at as a way to make it more realistic (for the insanely hooked...). Probably could set up the search ability to search all vendors in current zone, or all vendors in a particular zone, or all vendors in all selling zones, that way the people who cry about no one knowing that their character down in FP is selling spider silks for 3pp each (lol) Can still have their trader info listed by anyone looking for items they may have....

Ok, I've posted long enough, only wanted to post my 2cp, looks like I hit about 43sp...

[Tydarius]

DOH! as I stick my head into the Forge...

Sorry Goresmash, I read as far as the first page, then after I posted, I saw your post, lol ops:

Would be great if they did it like that, I mean, even with the way that a player can now get to every starting city from PoK with ease, it really wouldn't make getting to Halas or FP to buy stuff hard at all... :P

The only people I see complaining would be those that feel Sony owes them for so misfortune of Nerfing in the past, or the really, really lazy ones, or maybe that pissed off druid who can't get his asking price of 20pp for a port from WC to NK (ok, I'm losing scope here... :roll: )

Personally, I would go with adding a trader area to each city, at least they could get people to travel more, I mean think of the advertising "Neriak - even Trolls are welcomed here" and "Come to the 3rd annual drunken swim meets of Halas" or "East Freeport: home of the most taverns and pubs per zone since 1998 - also, come to the underground brothel, and meet this week's feature wench, Eledanyl, the Red-headed High-elf harlot of the Faydark and watch her fall from grace" :twisted: (Ok, so I was getting a little carried away there....bite me)

Ok, I think I've reached the 33gp mark on opinions....