Any chance of making the new Silks/Hides sellable to Vendors?

[Treesong]

I was wondering why the new Silks and Hides for Cultural armor are not sellable to vendors? The only reason I can think of is to create an incentive for players to actually put it in the bazaar and give the bazaar-economy a little boost but to be honest, I think this never really works.

The Everquest NPC merchants are unique in the MMO-genre in that they sell back stuff that players sold to them. I can understand how Quest items and certain Loot are not sellable, no arguments there. I also think that the devs are doing a fine job in balancing what should be sellable and what not: for instance I like how you can buy certain items used for tasks from an NPC vendor(in fact, quest items).

In the case of the Silks/Hides, I think a fun chance is lost for all those vendorminers amongst us, and I honestly do not think it would really change that much for the Bazaar-economy if they became vendor-sellable. The higher Tier stuff will still be sold for good amounts in the Bazaar, the lower tier stuff also(but maybe for a little less) while the fun-factor of checking NPC vendors for players is increased.

Mind you, this is not just me wanting to find bargains on vendors. I do not like destroying stuff. I have a ton of lower tier silks and hides that I have no use for and would want to sell to a vendor, but can't. And putting them in the Bazaar is too much hassle for me, I hardly ever have a vendor up. I think we have to remember that NPC merchants in EQ are in fact an important part of the Economy in Norrath and can be seen as an extension to the player Bazaar. In my case, I would use an NPC merchant to "vendor" my wares to another player if he would want them. I do not mind if they yield like 1 silver a piece for me, it just feels good to bring my loot back in the world this way rather then destroy it. Other players could buy them and use them or even put them in the Bazaar. It just adds options which is good, imo.

EQ always has had fewer restrictions/invisable walls then other games, it has more freedom in many small things, and seeing that half of my loot in my inventory after a day of killing is greyed out at the NPC vendor makes me a sad panda. Please keep as much stuff in the world of Norrath sellable!

[Nolrog]

I was wondering why the new Silks and Hides for Cultural armor are not sellable to vendors? The only reason I can think of is to create an incentive for players to actually put it in the bazaar and give the bazaar-economy a little boost but to be honest, I think this never really works.

That's pretty much it. They want this to be player driven. This is one of my issues to nag Ngreth about, so figure I'll ask it at every HoC chat until he relents.

/mourn vendor mining.

[Elyssanda]

Also, don't blame Ngreth for this. Maddoc told himto.

[Treesong]

Yes, I figured it was not in Ngreth's hands. I am curious if they have tools to check wether such a move actually spurs on the bazaar-traffic. Even if it does a little, I think too much is lost by making it not sellable.

If the reason is to make Cultural Armor a player-driven trade, I still do not see why they have to take NPC merchants out of the loop. Because of their ability to sell back goods that other players sold them, they are in fact part of the loop, like they should in a good MMO. This is why it is such an unique feature.

Walling this trade off like this is just not fun and not in the spirit of EQ.

[Ngreth Thergn]

I can tell you.

If I ever do... NPC merchants are going to also put a rather high premium on this stuff....

For now it will continue to only be a player market.

This also helps us reduce the amount coming in the world, because some gets destroyed. I might have to lower the drop rate further (for the cultural stuff, not the templates the templates are fine being common) if this becomes doable via NPC vendor diving.

[Amparo]

Just yesterday a Porous Loam dropped and the group looter and 4 others in group said nothing. I waited and the group just kept chugging along. I explained what just dropped and the main looter said, "Cool, I was just going to sell all and /split with the group when we are done." And he wasn't lying to reap the profits himeslf. These are good people I have know for years.

Now, making all mob dropped tradeskill flagged items non-vendor saleable will have at least 3 results.

1) People will bank/guildbank them or give them to TSing friends.
2) People will sell them in Bazaar
3) People will destroy them

Ngreth stated that alot of rare items get destroyed on "poofing" server down/zone crashed vendors but alot of players don't give a hoot about tradeskills and when they go to a vendor to sell their 190pp blue diamonds and get the message "I will give you absolutely nothing for that Porous Loam" they are going to hit the destroy button without hesitation.

[Treesong]

Thanks for chiming in on this, Ngreth.


I think the only stuff being destroyed right now is the low level stuff(well, apparently there are some unknowing players that would destroy high tier stuff!). I can understand how you want to protect the upper tiers so a premium on the top tiers would be understandable.

I read from your post that you are mostly concerned about the drops that actually make the Cultural Armor, like the correct Loams and Marrows and possibly also the Silks and Pelts that make the templates for this (Sullied, Crude, Fine and Superb) so how about keeping those ingredients non-sellable, while the other ingredients become vendor-sellable? This would yield a more open economy for the stuff that people can skill up on, but protects the actual Cultural Armor making.

Though I remember you saying that those other ingredients at one point may be used for actual combines too, so that could become a hassle then. Could also be a bit confusing for players.

Maybe just make alll silks and pelts (and ores) sellable, but keep the second-step ingredients not sellable? I understand that you do not really want players to find stacks of exquisite Silks on a Vendor and make a bunch of 500hp armors with their 300 Leatherworking Mule; my plea is more for keeping an open economy for the more mundane stuff, for skilling up and the above reasons (not wanting to destroy stuff.)

I strongly believe that everquest NPC merchants are actually part of the playermarket, unlike merchants in other MMO's so I think we have to go at great lengths to keep the NPC's of Norrath in the gameplay loop.

[Ngreth Thergn]

We still want more time of this in game to evaluate

Half measures like you mention are possible, but no decision has been made other than to keep watching it.

[Rundle Allnighter]

I too was surprised the NPCs were not part of the process. I would have to agree with Amparo with one small change to the order:

1) People will destroy them
2) People will sell them in Bazaar
3) People will bank/guildbank them or give them to TSing friends.

A large portion of people have no care or concern about tradeskill items if they are not a tradeskiller. Destruction of such items will occur quite frequently. If they do care about the items, it's more than likely so they can try to sell them in the bazaar, and even then, only the "good selling" items. The number of people who will bank or hand over items is a small percentage unless people take steps to educate. I know in our guild, there are a few people who are constantly posting on the boards and chatting up TS drops in /gu. And linking the various tradeskill items as they are made also help people remember. But this activity happens for only a minority of people on the server. Again, it's my experience that a high percent of the stuff just gets destroyed.

Just the other night in a SOF, a guildy was looting for cash only and leaving all the other stuff to rot. Turns out an Exquisite Marrow was just sitting there. /boggle


My first thoughts on involving the vendors would have them emulate what goes on in the bazaar. Buy low, sell high. An example with limited research and thought as to the prices ( ) : Selling an exquisite marrow nets you 120pp and the vendor will turn around and sell it for 2000pp. Yeah maybe silly numbers right now given all the bazaar prices are out of control (I saw someone asking 250k for the exquisite marrow last night) but you have to start somewhere.

[Treesong]

Ok, thanks Ngreth, I am glad things like this keep having the attention of the devs.

[Shadrok]

I doubt it

I doubt that any Porous Loam is being destroyed.

I think that because of the amount of things like Supple Loam still being hawked in the bazaar.

[Mudrido]

I doubt that any Porous Loam is being destroyed.

I bought a Porous Loam in the Bazaar a few mornings ago for 600pp. The guy clearly didn't have a clue what it was, or made the worst typo in history. There really are some clueless people playing this game (and by that I mean they simply don't care and are content to be oblivious about some tradeskill tagged item that they can't sell to a vendor - just as easy to destroy it than investigate. Probably very rare but I can see some Porous Loams being destroyed. Remember all the tales of people finding treasure troves of MDS's on the Lavastorm druid vendor?).