Cultural tribute?

[Zopharr]

Also have mules full of the stuff, and mules that used to be full of the stuff i now wish id never have deleted

Phelis

From the Sony boards regarding today's Patch Notes:

" - Cultural items should now have a tribute value."

Enjoy - I know I'm getting bank space back!

Garshok

[Gaell Stormracer]

Sacred sleeve and legging symbols (of the skeptic) tribute at 46 each, which is about the plat cost of the vendor-bought components (coal+deity water).

[Shadrok]

Tribute Values

Heh, tribute is in (thanks Ngreth), but not to the value I was hoping.

Cultural Armor:
Simple - unknown
Ornate - 37 tribute
Intricate - 94
Elaborate - 244

Cultural Symbols:
Blessed - unknown
Revered - 27
Sacred - 44 (from last post)
Eminent - unknown

Now, I would have loved to get something, even this paltry amount of tribute out of the many Ornate and Intricate items I threw away while skilling. I will, of course, tribute any items that I don't think I can sell,.

However, the items I have stockpiled on my seller will remain on my seller. One sale will be worth 100 tributes. How is that? I buy items, for instance, Swamp Walker Veils, for 40 platinum and tribute them for 400. If I sell one Ornate item for 250pp, I can convert that into 2500 tribute, compared to 37 tribute. If I sell one Elaborate item for 20K, I can turn that into 200K of tribute, compared to 244 tribute outright.

With the new cultured, my prices for my cultured items may drop some. (MDS cost 10K in the bazaar, and Cobalt Ore goes at 1K, but Soluble Loam is running 5K). I can't find enough bazaar items to convert all my cash into 10x tribute, but that's my cutoff.

I anticipated tribute values to be a bit higher. by at least a factor of 10.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Um no.

We are not sure what they did when they made those way high tributes in the past.

Current tribute is almost always 1 plat = 1 tribute.

the lower tier stuff is just too common to give a bonus, but we decided to give a bonus on the higher stuff since it is more difficult to come by. (you will see more of a growth in the 75 symbols and the 80 symbols and armor)

We want Cultural armor to be something players make for other players or themselves. We do **NOT** want cultural armor to be a "tribute" farm.

[KyrosKrane]

When tribute values were first set, they used some sort of automated formula. Unfortunately, the formula assigned undue weight to some stats like skill modifiers, and you ended up with items like tradeskilled bait having 20K tribute each or some such nonsense. This was very quickly reversed, and a new measure was instituted. Items got tribute values based roughly on the average bazaar price of the item at the time the survey was done. So for example, if an item was listed in the bazaar for 10K on one server, 15K on another, and 26K on a third, the average price was 17K, and the item got 17K tribute.

Cash loot items with no use and vendor-sold items almost always had 1pp = 1 tribute ratios.

A few items were apparently hand-tweaked or capped, but the vast majority followed this pattern.

Since then, tribute values have been a crapshoot. Some new items had decent tribute values well above what they would sell for in the bazaar; others had terribly low tribute values.

Personally, for the elaborate armors, I'd set the tribute value at 200 per ore/pelt/pair of silk, plus 500 for the marrow/loam/spinneret fluid, plus 100 or so for vendor bought items. That puts tribute values at 800, 1000, or 1200 per item.

I'd do half that for Intricate, and half again for ornate, and half again for simple.

I'd use the same pattern for the symbols, but given the quest to obtain the patterns, I'd add in an extra 200 tribute to account for elaborate aug patterns, 100 for intricate, 50 for ornate, and 25 for simple.

This also gives you a scalable system you could extend to the two upcoming tiers.

That's still well below market value for the items, but a meaningful amount that provides some value if you're mass producing them.

[Aldier]

I agree with KyrosKrane except remove the 100 for vendor items.

Only the Tier 13 has vendor items that are over 100pp. Assuming the most expensive filament/coal is for Tier 13 since there are 13 on the merchants.

Superb Templates cost 59pp for the Filament/coal and under 1pp for the rest of the parts. But the tier 11 filament/coal is not twice as much as the tier 9. It could easily be set to scale with the cost of the filament/coal.

[GrimwoodCT]

We want Cultural armor to be something players make for other players or themselves. We do **NOT** want cultural armor to be a "tribute" farm.

This makes total sense.

Think of Native American stance at seeing sacred cultural clothing/artifacts being bartered for even today.

[KyrosKrane]

I was going by memory on the vendor parts. It makes sense to add in about as much as the vendor parts actually cost. If it's 60pp at the elaborate level, then it should add 60 tribute to represent the vendor parts.

[KyrosKrane]

Think of Native American stance at seeing sacred cultural clothing/artifacts being bartered for even today.

That stance is not universal, though. Some Native Americans make such handicrafts specifically for resale. As a parallel within EQ, an NPC (like the tradeskill quest NPCs in the home towns) might object on xenophobic grounds, but the larger player community would value the system and probably endorse it.

It also makes a great deal of sense within EQ's economic ecosystem to have fair values on tribute. Remember, the lore concept behind tribute is that you're donating goods to your city to help prepare for a potential war or invasion, and in return, the city's priests and magicians grant you a portion of their power to make up for the loss of communication with the gods. So logically, armors and weapons would be prized by the tribute masters as these are central to arming for war, and these armors are among the best you can get.

[Zaltak]

I don't tribute items unless I can get a ten to one ratio of Tribute to cash value.This is what upset me so much about HIE blue diamond cultural chain as compaired to plate.The plate version tributed for around 100 times what the chain tributed for.

[GrimwoodCT]

That stance is not universal, though. Some Native Americans make such handicrafts specifically for resale.

I am thinking more of the ancient artifacts, made and used by ancestors, that are sold or displayed by non-native/Native individuals. Much like having someone dig up my Uncle Bob and display his ribcage as tea cozy. The cultural stuff made today (specifically made for sales to tourists) is a quantum leap from the aforementioned.

As a parallel within EQ, an NPC (like the tradeskill quest NPCs in the home towns) might object on xenophobic grounds, but the larger player community would value the system and probably endorse it.

It also makes a great deal of sense within EQ's economic ecosystem to have fair values on tribute. Remember, the lore concept behind tribute is that you're donating goods to your city to help prepare for a potential war or invasion, and in return, the city's priests and magicians grant you a portion of their power to make up for the loss of communication with the gods. So logically, armors and weapons would be prized by the tribute masters as these are central to arming for war, and these armors are among the best you can get.

An interesting perspective. I can see the merit in that.

[KyrosKrane]

Much like having someone dig up my Uncle Bob and display his ribcage as tea cozy.

No offense to your uncle Bob, but that just made me chuckle.

[GrimwoodCT]

That man was a genius in the kitchen and a saint with pets.
He will be missed.

[Roanne]

Who cares about role playing rationales? Have you all forgotten there is a friggin card game built into the game? RIP roleplaying.

[melkorr]

Ok. We get that you, along with lots of other folks don't like the idea of a TCG connected to EQ. Gratz, point made. Now, move on. Every discussion does not need a reference back to LoN. Just because some aspects of EQ run contrary to a roleplaying spirit, does not mean we should stop bothering to roleplay at all. If you are fine with the idea of a fantasy world with dragons and pixies and everything else EQ already had, how much of a jump is it really to accept a TCG based on said fantasy constructs. All that aside, I'm kindof tired of seeing threads getting derailed with "Blame LoN. LoN sucks. LoN eats kitten souls." LoN is a valid concern, but it does not cause every problem in EQ.

Personally, I agree that tribute should be high enough to actually reward players for tributing them. With the current rates, there isn't much reason to tribute. While I see the dev's concern about people using cultural as a tribute farming item, there are much better ways to do that. Especially with MCS having it's trivial dropped 50 points. The values KyrosKrane said seem to make good sense to me.