Ideas for itemization of tradeskill required gear

[Bolas]

What if some raid or group gear was skill restricted based off of tradeskills?

For example.... it's a raid drop that's off of a really tough mob.. but.. you couldn't equip it unless you had 250+ baking?

Or a very high end item that you couldn't equip unless you had 250+ (or 300+?) in all seven tradeskills?

Cloak of the Master Artisan. All/All, drops off of Mayong Mistmoore (or similarly tough raid mob), insane stats, but can't be worn except by master artisans? You could make it crazy stats because people would both have to be able to kill the raid mob and have all the necessary tradeskills done. Heck or even a quest.

I've seen some gear where you had to have a min defensive skill to equip it... why not gear with a min tradeskill level to equip it? raid gear or one-group gear or gear from missions.. but require certain tradeskill levels?

Thoughts on this?

-Bolas

[Angelsyn]

Not really thrilled by this idea.

Yeah, it rewards Tradeskillers who are in Raid Guilds... but it also potentially overly-encourages people who don't (and probably still won't afterwards) care about Tradeskills to do them.

Hardcore Tradeskillers will complain that the items are out of their reach because they don't have time to raid, and Hardcore Raiders will complain that the items are out of their reach because they don't have time to do tradeskills.

[Zolina]

I'd rather see more high-quality, No Trade tradeskill-made gear. Maybe not raid quality, but at least the quality of mini-nameds in Riftseekers and the like. Something to give dedicated tradeskillers a hand up on the path from group gear to raid gear.

[Newcromancer]

"Yeah, it rewards Tradeskillers who are in Raid Guilds"

Yup, give more to those who don't need. I hate this idea.

I agree with Zolina wholeheartedly. That is what I would like to see.

[Drachir]

I'm not a big fan of this idea, if only because I would hate to compete with every powergamer for tradeskill items so they can skill up just to wear new armour. They have a lot more money than I do, and it would definitely affect the availability of materials for people with an interest in tradeskilling.

I think that what was done with the cultural DoN armours is a good model to follow. Worthwhile items, attuneable items(so the hand-me downs don't flood the market), that make tradeskillers' efforts worthwhile.

Where I could see Bolas' suggestion work would be with tradeskill-specific items. For example, on a raid or at the end of a quest, the Pocket of Carpal Tunnel Removal drops, which would have 20 charges of summon 20X Celestial Essences (just an example, I'm kidding...). Would have a minimum tradeskill level to use, and so it would reward the artisans without causing Hottierouge013 to start buying crushed diamond dust at 10k a pop.

[Bolas]

I'd rather see more high-quality, No Trade tradeskill-made gear. Maybe not raid quality, but at least the quality of mini-nameds in Riftseekers and the like. Something to give dedicated tradeskillers a hand up on the path from group gear to raid gear.

I like this idea better than mine.... more NODROP tradeskill made gear, so that ya gotta make it yourself.

Or maybe two versions of all tradeskill made gear -- kinda like the engraved royal velium armor -- one NODROP version with slightly superior stats, and one version for sale to the general public.

After all.. wouldn't the tradeskiller keep the best for thekmselves?

Yeah we don't wanna encourage every yahoo to take up tradeskilling. I suppose you're right.

But I wouldn't mind seeing some raid drops where I'm the only one that could use it due to the min tradeskill restriction, and thus I get a decent upgrade for very little dkp.

-Bolas

[Aldier]

But I wouldn't mind seeing some raid drops where I'm the only one that could use it due to the min tradeskill restriction, and thus I get a decent upgrade for very little dkp.

However, you have to take into consideration itemization. What item do you want removed for the tradeskillers to gain an advantage. That is even if you do not remove a drop from a mob, you have to have the rest of the loot drop less frequent. As the case is, some mobs seem to drop 1 class/archetype specific item more than others (Kess with leather) and I feel the tradeskill item would quickly become a rot item from a lack of people with the skill to use it.

[KyrosKrane]

More to the point, I would be very cautious about any item that causes people to tradeskill just to get that item, and nothing else. That's effectively what happened with Aid Grimel. People started skilling up like mad just to get the earring, disrupting both the demand side (tradeskill components) and supply side (finished products) in their rush to get their tradeskills high enough to quest the earring.

I'm much more partial to the DoN/DoDH model, where a raid drop requires tradable, tradeskill-made components to become useful. Tying the DoDH drops to DoN armors was a nice touch that effectively created a new market for the armors. I don't think raiders should be tied to that armor forever, but new expansions might bring more raid drops that require some tradeskill work (combines, refinement, whatever you want to call it) before they become useful to the raider. If the raider is a tradeskiller, he or she could save some moolah and prepare the items alone. If the raider isn't, he or she would have to obtain the items from another tradeskiller, who doesn't have to be a raider. Thus, you can reward both raiders and tradeskillers for doing their own thing, without causing either to infringe on the domain of the other.

[Xulan]

More to the point, I would be very cautious about any item that causes people to tradeskill just to get that item, and nothing else. That's effectively what happened with Aid Grimel. People started skilling up like mad just to get the earring, disrupting both the demand side (tradeskill components) and supply side (finished products) in their rush to get their tradeskills high enough to quest the earring.

I'm much more partial to the DoN/DoDH model, where a raid drop requires tradable, tradeskill-made components to become useful. Tying the DoDH drops to DoN armors was a nice touch that effectively created a new market for the armors. I don't think raiders should be tied to that armor forever, but new expansions might bring more raid drops that require some tradeskill work (combines, refinement, whatever you want to call it) before they become useful to the raider. If the raider is a tradeskiller, he or she could save some moolah and prepare the items alone. If the raider isn't, he or she would have to obtain the items from another tradeskiller, who doesn't have to be a raider. Thus, you can reward both raiders and tradeskillers for doing their own thing, without causing either to infringe on the domain of the other.

My thoughts exactly. I could not have said it better.

I do miss having a current tradeskill quest though (finished shawl except for the event for 8th... decided to mq the armor and orders for a friend who could use the 8th more; finished grimel except for hope stone). If another one is made, I suggest one of two things:

1. Make it so insanely involved (ala BiC) that only crazy people would do it. Since all natural tradeskillers (those doing tradeskills because they like it, not for gear) are crazy, this will work to filter out many who would do it just for the gear like the grimel quest was. Also, do not make it depend on flags.

2. Make it so the final item would be wanted more by tradeskillers and less by everyone else. I don't know how to do this uniquely (especially with the new trophies and bags and the hopeful upcoming surprise with trophy 7), but anything that causes a little discouragement for non-tradeskillers would be great. But I don't know how to do this.


Hmm, maybe I'll finally go do the ethereal bladed naginata quest. I got frustrated after failing for the 5th time or so on those metal combines.

[Wyvernwill]

Here's the primary issue that I see with this line of thought...

Let's make something only tradeskillers would want and no one else would.

Why bother? If it's hard as BiC, and offers nothing but say a Mod to Salvage, no one would ever bother with it. You'd have some who might, but in the end... it would be too hard for most people to want to put the hassle into it, tradeskillers alike. Not sure how many here have done BiC, but even now it's far from easy to even get close to doing.

What it comes down to is this... Find something tradeskillers would definitely want that they don't already have and then find a way that it doesn't attract raiders. Then make it hard so that it has the deterent factor so non insane tradeskillers won't bother. Then find a way that it's still hard for low level (not skill, Level) tradeskillers can get it also, without trivializing it for high level tradeskillers. Then make it so that there is no raiding involved, but has to be group/soloable.

In the end, you run full circle and make it impossible to make anything.

All I really have to say on the matter is that we have to be realistic somewhere. If you want something that's not going to attract the attention of anyone who isn't a tradeskill nut, but something that benefits tradeskills enough to be worth the effort... you're looking at next to nothing.

Maybe because tradeskills are not the only thing I choose to do in EQ, I see things from a much more broad perspective and I am missing something.

[Kcalehc]

If you make an item thats really good and only tradeskillers can use, people will become tradeskillers in order to use it. Then who you going to sell your stuff to, eh?

exactly.

[Tiroon]

I love DoN and the items I can make from drops I can hunt.

I can live with the PoP/GoD system where I have to buy some drops that come off mobs I cannot fight.

I don't like the DoD system. My characters are adventurers and tradeskillers. They won't ever go near anything like the AAAA unless getting to the point where acquiring a stone becomes possible. They make what they can use themselves and are happy to share what they craft with friends, alts and others. In simple terms I am not playing to be Bor Warhammer.