RNG vs Fixed Number of Combines

[Elfdruidess]

Now that we are getting a taste of "fixed number of combines" with evolving Master Trophies, does anyone really enjoy it more than the RNG system?

I for one prefer the excitement of never knowing when the "ding" will be. Knowing that the next "ding" will be in exactly 10 successful combines is so boring.

I did 250-300 smithing with sickles in 24 hours because the "never knowing when" pushed me on and on. I was unable to stop until I hit 300.

However, evolving the Smithing Trophy from 6 to 7 took me sooo much longer because I knew exactly how many more combines are in the horizon. It became "no worries, sleep for a while ... only xxx combines left to do" and the procrastination went on and on.

I am glad that we got a chance to try out the alternate way so that I can vote for the RNG skillup system knowing that I don't like the alternative.

[Liwsa]

Were you saying you like the rng when it took you 200-300 attempts for that one skill-up?

[Elfdruidess]

Who wouldn't hate a hell point. I remember all those frustating moments ... 340 mino hero brews for one single point *before* there was a tradeskill UI for example.

But the fact is, there is excitment and anticipation that accompany every combine. And it is that excitiment and anticipation that keeps me going. Not the blend "10 combines and a ding".

Besides, after all these years, I can still remember that 340 mino hero brew combines. No longer with hatred. But with fond memories. I won't remember any of those "10 combines and a ding" I guarantee. To me, a big part of tradeskilling is about memories that I'll remember for a loooong time.

[mewkus]

If the system were to be revamped, the way I would propose is that each skill up would require a number of attempt points. Attempt points would be similar to the evolving points where you get more points for more difficult attempts, except that you get some consolation points when you fail (cause you fail alot at low levels). The number of points needed for before the next skill up can be random (but hidden from the user), and that value can be checked against a maximum value thus elimiating the hell levels, which no one likes and only serves to discourage people from doing tradeskills.

[Ysall]

I'm a fan of random skill-ups, but not of the times when the RNG can produce truly horrific runs without a skill-up. I've nearly quit the game (I'm not kidding) becuase a particular skill-up (fletching 299-300 using GM trophy route springs to mind) ran into the hundreds of combines, and millions of plat.

There are thousands of us doing tradeskills, each of us doing hundreds of skill-ups, and the bell shaped curve says that some of us are going to hit the run-from-hell. They can be so painful, so damaging, that they genuinely ruin someones game experiance.

I'd be happy to see a model that used the current RNG arrangement, but that had a cap of 100 combines without skill-ups, after which your 100th combine results in a skill-up no matter what. That way, even with no skill-up, at least you can say to yourself, 'ah well, at least that one more off the 100', and the worse excesses of the RNG are removed.

[Grolyn]

I do prefer rng over fixed but only if there's limit to number of attempts before skilling up anyway. One of my guildie is stuck at 224 baking on MTP. 100+ successful combine no skillup. I'd expect that in 290-300 range but not at 224.

[Ndaara]

having done tradeskills actively in eq2, there are pros and cons to both systems. i really didn't like the recipes restriction in eq2 (you must acquire a recipe before you can make it) but i also don't much care for those extremely long runs without a skillup.

when i returned from eq2, i changed my attitude quite a lot, though. i rarely do skillup runs simply for the sake of skill. i wait til i need tribute then go to town =) so i'm not focusing so much on the skill points (or lack of them) but on successes for my tribute. of course i end up filling 4 characters with tribute and the guild tribute... then i work on other stuff for a while.

or i make more stuff to restock my trader.

i like what i'm doing now much better.

[Rwauld]

Progressive Rng

I'm a fan of the progressive model. RNG still gets it's licks in, but...as long as you haven't failed a combine, the previous roll adds to the last for a skill up chance. Or, a portion of the previous roll adds to your chance. Fail a combine, go back to ZERO.

[Taushar]

Well, I played SWG for a bit and it had fixed number skill increase. It certain was a lot less frustrating than RNG based skill up. I knew exactly when I will ding based on number of combines I had to do. No fuss. Not only that, it had practice mode when you combine. When you click the practice mode when you do combine, you get nothing as result of combine but you get more points towards leveling up than if you actually got an item made.

One maddening factor is the raw resources you had to collect to do combines. They shifted all the time and you had to find the sources of the raw material as it shifted and mined them. As you went higher in skills, you had to use better quality material for combine which was harder to find. So, the frustration shifted from combines to shifting raw materials.

I think I still preferred it.

Taushar