Shissar scale possible change.....

[Lemeril]

I had read this multiple times in various spots and just want to make a plea and hope some agree with me.

Currently in my opinion shissar scales are on par where they should be UNLESS the combines for Master's Augs and various race armor are changed. Currently I know of 2 races (maybe more?) along with All Master's augs combines using these. They are currently selling for 300 to 800pp in the bazaar on Tribunal. Consistent with the level we are talking 22 Scales if no fails for 6600 pp to 17,600pp depending on bazaar prices. And no Faiels to be honest is unrealistic. 99% of the time the ones that are making it for themselves to use are going to fail 4 to 5 times over the course of making.

SSRA for that matter is no cake walk either. On my 63 beast with 56 aa's I can get between 6 to 8 an hour solo on a good, on a bad day I get 3 an hour at 63.

Now yes, they can be farmed by level 70's who walk in and kill everything including the named, but think of the people at the level who are trying to make this for themselves. A 55 can't even solo there twinked.

[Niphreedil]

Well at level 55 it's probably designed for a group.

[Dranul]

Try farming ice borrower silk, even at 70. Step one, you have to clear Kael arena several times in order to farm without looking over your shoulder for roaming dragons. Step two, better get yourself a 100k drog, otherwise you won't cover nearly as much ground as needed. Step three, spend hours searching for just a few ice borrowers, killing hounds, mammoths, rhinos in the hopes it might help the spawn. Step four, wonder how you can get more 1.5 mage pieces than you can ice borrower silk.

[Phantron]

Consider no one was able to solo snakes back at level 60 in Luclin with any reasonable efficiency (and most classes can't solo at all since they summon), why is it surprising?

You can't solo drakes at level 65 for Metallic Drake Scales or Gloosy Drake Hides, but you can wear the armor 65 too. Same thing.

No one who can use Shissar Scales (I can use them) has a right to complain about them at all.

[YurienStonebow]

i only want to complain that i don't have a bankfull of scales hehehehe

[Ishwar]

You are wrong that scales are where they should be.

For DoN cultural armor, the aug and the armor itself should be comparble dificulty to get. Also they should be comparable to similar armor. Shisshar scales are clerarly easier to get than crushed diamond dust. Shissar scales are clearly easier to get than bazu blood.

The fact that they are used for symbols too, should make them more available beacuse of higher demand. If you ask me, the right drop rate of DoN master cultural ingredients is about 3-5 per hour for a full group of level 60s.

[Lemeril]

First if you are hunting Ice Burrowers in Kael you are in the wrong zone.

Second, since when should level 55, REPEAT "55" armor be 3 to 5 per hour by a group of 60's? That has to be the most stupid thing I have heard. I would agree if you had said 55 but not 60's.

I agree the Crushed diamond dust is off kilter, but SSRA is already over farmed. I get KSed in there all the time on my beast by people in there to make plat off of them. There is no way they will change this from happening, in fact lowering the drop rate will make it worse.

There are drops that need fixed. If they are going to change the drops fine, the lower the drop rate of Scales, but currently there are so many races that use them along with all the master's augs that they are over farmed. People who could use the armor can't even get in there some days because the 70's who want the plat from them don't let them in.

The exact same thing will continue to happen with that part though.

I never argued drop rates were wrong. What I said is that unless other races and the augs are rearranged so that less races/augs use the scales please do not change them. So many use them right now that it could be insane if the drop rate was lowered.

Plus for those thinking 3 to 5 by a full group in an hour for a 60's group is wrong. This armor is aimed at 55 to 65. Due to the costs involved in tradeskilling prices on the augs or armor or both are never going to drop much. To be honest most of your toons that could use the armor aren't wearing it. I give over 75% of what I make of vah shir master's armor away.

Why? Because they can't afford bazaar prices already.

Just my view but I can't believe people here are asking for it to be nerfed instead of asking for the others to be raised or a full readjustment at least so we don't see a nerf of a product used by multiple races and the augs which would just cause more grief.

Maybe those of you calling for a nerf will get your wish. For my part if it is a major nerf to vah shir cultural I may stop making it altogether. Currently at least it's a viable path for skill up and an ability to help others. If they go to change the drop rate it would not suprise me to see them mess it up just like they did crushed diamond dust. And don't try to tell me they lowered the drop rate of that because they did. Why they can't just put the drop rate back the way it was I don't know.

Most of the time when SOE nerf's a drop you might as well forget it unless you already have the skill to make the item from what I have seen. It isn't even worth farming anymore most of the time.

I don't feel changing current items that are working is the solution to fixing this. I think changing the problem items is. When sony changes what is working things tend to get worse not better.

EDIT to add Bazu armor has a different recommended level and I wouldn't even compare it to cultural since at 65 when you finally hit the recomended level for Bazu you can then get GM cultural for about the same effort.

They are also different expansions and Cultural was meant to be more available than previous expansion armor from what I understood. Especially considering the drop rates for GM aside from coarse silk which to be honest I'm not going there because I have not done the missions that are supposed to drop at least 1 every time.

[Sliggoth]

Just to clear up a misconception: they were suggesting killing in kael to get good dragon FACTION so that you can then hunt in WW without having to dodge the dragons.

Shissar scales are a pain to get, they are too expensive for the end product. That said, rejoice that you can use shissar scales since they are far easier to get and far cheaper than what other races are havint to deal with.

In comparison, shissar scales are a dream drop and easy to get. Master level components for other races are far more rare/ difficult.

I did a huge run of combines farming and buying shissar scales...I am quite aware of the amount of work required. They are a pain, but they got me to 300. For other races master level armor isnt a realistic skill up path at all.


Sliggoth, druid tradeskiller of 7th Hammer (2100 club)

[Wyvernwill]

I will not deny that shissar scales are easy to get and don't have a horrible drop rate. The only reason I can see them giving for changing the drop rate is because they don't want worthless combines as a means for skill ups.

Human Leather is worthless, I think I sell one piece every 2 months. I still have GM arms on my trader at 55k and still am taking a loss on those, been there for 3 months. The masters stuff I was selling at 400pp each (the scales sell for 500-1k each in the bazaar).

All in all, I really don't care if they make it worse or not. If they make shissar scales worse, they still don't fix why people are upset in the first place and that's the rare, excessively hard drops in Storm Volaas Hairs and the likes. I love when people want a change, they cry nerf something if the thing they want isn't fixed.

[Ngreth Thergn]

It is very unlikely (despite what other threads have assumed I have said) that I will reduce any drop rates. There are more widespread effects to reducing drop rates than increaseing drop rates. That is why for things that drop "too often for the plan" (not my words... following orders...) it will be a change in the item used.

Also... I will *NOT* be "ajusting" any of this without also fixing the ones that drop too rarely. It will be done all in one batch. You will not see ajustment then no fix, of fix and no ajustment.

If something is changed I will give as much warning as I can so that what you have can be used (and hopefully bazaar sellers are smart and slash prices... and bazaar buyers are smart enough not to BUY from people that raise the price because it will change... wait until it changes if they try and gouge) I deally I willg et 4 weeks notice, releastically it may only be 2 weeks. And of course emergency patch can screw things up.

I will say that If I do change Sissar scales... they will probably stay for symbols, but change for the armor. But nothing has been set yet, so this is not a promise, just my current thoughts on the matter.

[Yammez]

Thanks for clearing that up Ngreth and for not capitulating to people who want everything made easy. These armors should be tough to make and not a means of just skilling up in a tradeskill imo. Things are already very "dummied down" from the old days *shows age*. I think that Ngreth and Co. do a fairly good job of balancing drops rates with playability. High-end tradeskilling should be a real pain in the arse. Otherwise, there would be no point or satisfaction in obtaining 300 in a skill. I did backflips when I finally obtained 300 JC and I'll do cartwheels for a week when I hit 300 Tinkering. Unless, of course, it's made easy to do. EQ is a challenge and should remain a challenge. I believe that is the reason I see old guildies who left EQ for some other inferior games *cough*WoW*cough* are coming back to EQ. They know the content and rewards are available. Enjoy tradeskilling for what it is: fun and challenging.

*My 2 cp worth...

[Flehmen]

Enjoy tradeskilling for what it is: fun and challenging.

I agree completely with one minor exception. The way I play EQ I find fun doing many things at once. Several characters, each doing a several things all at once, and seldom do I go for straight XP or to max out any one goal.

So how about tradeskills that are difficult, fun, challenging and available to everyone. No hunting/foraging in zones that I can't even think about getting into for the sake of skill-ups. I can't compete in the baz for the amount of cash that is available in the upper ends.

I can see parts of the task system being used to help out in this regard... or any of the other mission type systems. (Missions where you don't need 3 people would be nice too. Only found one so far.)

An ideas is, how about a mission that provides MDS, you can only enter once a week per account, and is only available from 30-55 or some such. Of course, I'm sure someone will just come along and exploit it but... I'd love to see it done... I can wait three weeks for an attempt at a combine I simply will not have access to otherwise. (I make a lot of plat for my level btw, but I can't compete against some who have millions at their fingertips.) Another coldan prayer shawl type quest that scales with level?

Btw, Ngreth, thanks for the information you are supplying. This post wasn't directed at you, but I do hope you take it to heart.

[Ishwar]

First if you are hunting Ice Burrowers in Kael you are in the wrong zone.

Second, since when should level 55, REPEAT "55" armor be 3 to 5 per hour by a group of 60's? That has to be the most stupid thing I have heard. I would agree if you had said 55 but not 60's.

Master armor has reccomended level of 60, this is why I use this level. I do not consider the required level of 55 the approproate level to base it on.

In any case compare with any other place for hunting comparetive armor. You will be very hard pressed trying to get 3-5 bazu blood per hour, or simlar magnitic drops with a group of 60's. Or try to get an ornate pattern per hour of grouping with a group of 60's. Actually try to get ANY comparative armor with a group of 60ties, let alone a piece per hour.

[Canyar]

I thought the cultural armour was introduced to reduce the gap that between raiding and non raiding communities, while still leaving the raiders with an advantage. Particularly, it was introduced to try to prevent the casual player from leaving and going to games which provided a more consistent and less time intensive path for progression. The casual player does not want to spend time looking for farming groups and then hours and hours of farming. The whole argument of "it was much harder in my day" is pointless, since for most people there would be no point in buying any expansion after LDoN. No casual player wants to do 400 LDoNs , farm VT key, or spend years looking for pick-up raids to get flagged for eps for better armour.

Don't compare the new armour stats and availabilty to the difficulty of obtaining elemental armour, compare it to how hard the mobs hit in the newer expansions. Time gear is still better than DoN cultural, but if Sony want people to buy the newer expansions with mobs that hit for 1K+ they better provide the buyers with a viable route to enjoy the content. I am sorry, but 8 new bank slots, a few new recipes, and the ability to kick down doors would not make me spend my money if I only last 2 minutes in the zone.

Edit: This was not meant to sound like a rant, but rather how does Sony allow the casual player to keep up with newer expansions, but still provide a challenge to the raiding community. if a casual player buys an expansion, that is mostly profit for Sony, since Sony will rely on a lot of the regular players to buy the expansion to recoup their development costs.

[Flehmen]

Edit: This was not meant to sound like a rant, but rather how does Sony allow the casual player to keep up with newer expansions, but still provide a challenge to the raiding community. if a casual player buys an expansion, that is mostly profit for Sony, since Sony will rely on a lot of the regular players to buy the expansion to recoup their development costs.

The solution is two types of content in one expansion. The problem is that any of the "causual" content can easily be exploited by anyone who does raid content. The trick comes for SONY to make exploits difficult without annoying either type of player...

I'm sure I'll buy the new expansion, but I'm not sure I'm going to be overly happy to pay for it.