Too rare or just bad luck?

[Sceptor_CT]

220 skill from older recipes well before DoDh expansion. Was a long haul with rare components but got it done.

243 skill making lvl 61 spells and Runic Parchment Solutions shortly after DoDh came out.

I have since made spells from 53 Fine parchments, 88 Vellum parchments, 71 Fine Vellum parchments and 36 Runic parchments and my research skill is at 249.

My last run consisted of 4 hours of sub-combines to attempt 75 spells.

I’m the tradeskill officer so I loot at all raids and the above represents our entire stock of parchments (minus a stack of Runics for future spell needs, if any). Yes we’re a Demiplane flagged guild so we hunt it all.

I know success and skill-ups are as much a matter of luck with the rng as the next guy but this is 3 months of raiding 5-6 nights per week plus any xp group donations to get 5 points.

Is anyone else seeing this kind of trend from any tradeskill? Is this working as Sony intended?

[Nolrog]

220 skill from older recipes well before DoDh expansion. Was a long haul with rare components but got it done.

243 skill making lvl 61 spells and Runic Parchment Solutions shortly after DoDh came out.

I have since made spells from 53 Fine parchments, 88 Vellum parchments, 71 Fine Vellum parchments and 36 Runic parchments and my research skill is at 249.

Is anyone else seeing this kind of trend from any tradeskill? Is this working as Sony intended?

So let's see. You had 248 combines, and got 5 skill ups. That comes out to be about 50 combines per skill up, at 250. That's not so bad.

Remember, that skillups are much more frequent at the lower levels, and they get fewer and further between as you level up.

[Ngreth Thergn]

It is a little off at that level, but not so far off as to be unusual either. So yes, you jsut had some bad luck. Not the worst we have heard of, but some bad luck.

[Twistagain]

I might be misreading, but I believe the original poster wasn't surprised as much by the skillup rate (vs. number of combines), but in the amount of time and effort involved to obtain the materials for those combines (3 months of raiding, and 4 hours of subcombines for 5 pts.)

Not being a researcher myself (you finger wigglers scare me ), I have no idea how difficult the higher levels are, though it doesn't sound fun.

[Sceptor_CT]

This is 3 months of GUILD supplies though. At this rate it would take 2 and a half years to reach 300 (from 249).

If this is correct, I’ll pass.

[Ysall]

Between 250-267 reseach, I've averaged 1 skill-up per 25 combines. The Tradeskill formula on these boards says the skill-up rate should be around 1 in 20.

I'm probably sucking up around 60% of all parchments entering my server. I doubt current drop rates, or the spell market, could support more than 2 heavy duty researchers at once per server. And by heavy duty, I mean as in genuinely trying to get to 300 (see 'obsessed'), and with effectively limitless resources and time.

[saurumanthegray]

I know I'd like to see 300 some day. Like I said before, I'm happy with how viable research has become as a means of helping others get super rare spells and making a dime in the process.

Just make sure the next expansion has some 240-300 combines as well. Not so many as to trivialize the skilling up process. But enough combines to make this a skill where 300 is possible. Since this is the first we've seen in the direction of 300 for research, its premature for everyone to be expecting 300 just yet. I just hope that future recipes address this desire for a viable path to 300, cause all TS'ers want to hit 300 . Until that path exists, don't put anything quest wise etc in the extremely high trivial range or nobody will be able to make it!

For now I'm 222 research and loading up on sulfur, saltpeter and parchments. I've made dozens of PoP and GoD spells for people by request, so I've not been saving them until I'm above 243 in skill.... Oh well.

[Dranul]

Past 243, I don't think the devs meant for research to be easy. I think it's entirely reasonable that level 65 spells should be very hard to make, given that just farming runics is a hell of a lot easier than getting Glyphed Rune Words or Yiktu stones, and certainly easier than getting several Rune Words given the random nature of the PoP turn ins.

They obviously want high end pieces to have a minimum chance to fail, regardless of your skill; master and gm level cultural armor shows that. So with the resurrection of researching, instead of making the route to 300 easy and the high end pieces having a minimum chance to fail, they made the route to 300 as difficult as possible, with the route to 243 being much easier. Honestly, 243, Arcane Tonges 3, and a geerlok gives an acceptable margin for failure on these things.

I very much doubt that a casual researcher, especially researchers that aren't working with the benefit of an entire guild supporting their efforts, will ever make 300 in a timely manner, if at all, so it's not worth focusing on. Also, as long as new players and alts are created, there were always be a market for spells, unlike a lot of other things from other tradeskills. You might have to wait a long time for your spells to sell, but the point is that they are almost guarantee to eventually, where the market for other things will simply fall eventually.

[Lemeril]

I would agree with fail rates on the high end spells, but I have to say you must not be quite right on the Master's armor. GM yes, that is just a pain. But master's I fail maybe 1 in ever 30 combines at a skill of 235.

I would love to see the 65 researched spells available but they are just now showing up on Tribunal and pricing is out of site on them even more than the cost for turn in ones.

[Fonceur]

I think it's entirely reasonable that level 65 spells should be very hard to make

Then again, the best items that researchers can do are spells from 4-5 expansions ago...

[Dranul]

Items that a lot of people will and still need anyway, given the nature of spells. I fail to see how them being old makes them obsolete. You never, ever mem a 61-65 spell now that you are 70 with all your 66-70 spells? And that's another important note. There are a lot of people that don't have their 69 and 70 spells relying on PoP and GoD spells to fill the holes.

[Ysall]

A number of the GoD rune spells are still not obsolete, even with later expansions spells. Certainly some of the necro, shammie, and paladin spells sell very well for just that reason.

There are also a ton of alts out there are used as bot partners for whom the new recipies are the only way they will access a lot of their spells.

[Aarial]

Did they make the ancient spells researchable?

[Qaladar Bragollach]

No.

They probably never will.

[Ngreth Thergn]

No.

They probably never will.

Correct.

But we made plans for them in case it ever changes.

But note, if we ever do do them, the extra part needed for them will be just as difficult to get as the spell itself, so... they will still be very rare, just a bit less than twice the chance to get (if done... you can get the spell or get the part... and the part is not 100% chance that you will get a spell... so... no quite twice)