Update Time Again (September)

[Xulan]

I have mixed feelings about Gotik's idea.

Part of me likes it and would look forward to some better gear that I could make for myself.

The other part of me harkens back to the days of the Coldain Prayer Shawls. Instead of being a quest for tradeskillers, what actually happened is a load of people worked up their tradeskills for the sole purpose of the Shawl. They did not like tradeskills but did them just for the reward. Aid Grimel is the same, but worse. What this did is cause there to be more tradeskillers than there would have been, not because they enjoy skilling but because of only the reward. I actually would prefer fewer people to be involved, not more - only those who truly enjoy tradeskills. When people work skills for reward only, it has consequences: periodic market flooding of skill-up goods being one example, and lower levels of supplies for tradeskillers (along with increased prices) because reward-focused people are buying them up soley for the skill-up to get the reward. I think that the market for tradeskill sold goods would have been much more stable had there been no quest requiring tradeskills that would not have only really been appealing to tradeskillers (don't ask me how to do this, I have no idea). Btw, I don't think evil of people who did this =) It's is the system that was put into place, and they simply used it.

That said, not putting in something like Gotik suggested soley for the above reason would probably be silly as I have no suggestion on how to control or fix this beyond the attunable tag which is already in place. I just have that concern is all.

Perhaps the next time the Dev's put in a tradeskill quest that has a reward meant for anyone, create 2 methods to complete the quest. One via questing, drops, etc and another for the tradeskillers so that those without the skills will most likely choose the quested method even if the tradeskilled method is easier for those who already have the skills.

[Bumkus]

I have mixed feelings about Gotik's idea.

Part of me likes it and would look forward to some better gear that I could make for myself.

The other part of me harkens back to the days of the Coldain Prayer Shawls. Instead of being a quest for tradeskillers, what actually happened is a load of people worked up their tradeskills for the sole purpose of the Shawl. They did not like tradeskills but did them just for the reward.

Coldain Shawl was a wonderful quest. Whether you went into it for reward or not, you couldn't help but get immersed into Velious lore. I now have the 7th Shawl and the final hand-in ingrediants sitting in bank, gathering dust, but have never regretted doing this quest. I actually got more from a game lore perspective out out Coldain Shawl than I did from my Epic 1.0.

Aid Grimel is the same, but worse. What this did is cause there to be more tradeskillers than there would have been, not because they enjoy skilling but because of only the reward.

I never really viewed Aid Grimel as a tradeskill quest, even through it requires tradeskills, and high level tradeskills at that. Since this quest requires flags and group kills, this quest is well outside the range of many tradeskillers.

Perhaps the next time the Dev's put in a tradeskill quest that has a reward meant for anyone, create 2 methods to complete the quest. One via questing, drops, etc and another for the tradeskillers so that those without the skills will most likely choose the quested method even if the tradeskilled method is easier for those who already have the skills.

Well they don't really need to issue the exact item 2 different ways. They can be different items. There already exists means to obtain high end loot through raiding. No Drop tradeskilled items would simply provide a reward for a different type of character progression. The question is whether the game should reward you equivalently whether you put 100 hours into xp grinding or you put 100 hours into tradeskilling.

[Xulan]

Good points Bumkus.

I agree that the shawl did have a great story to it and was well done. I give no contest to that. I just did not like it requiring such a high level of tradeskills (150ish all around really, which back then was pretty high) for no other reason than to finish the quest. Grimel was even worse. I think the original intention was to have a quest to reward artisans and not to provide an avenue for masochistic punishment =) However, I suppose if people want to go through the pain of doing it only for the reward, more power to them.

There are raid items that are better for those who can raid. I'm just thinking that there should have been an item similar to the shawl (this is before the quest items from droga were introduces for priests and casters) that would take longer, but would still be doable by a single group up to the end, which would then require 3 or so groups for the final part (which I think was average for the 8th back when it came out). Something that would make non tradeskillers look who aren't raiders and do that instead of clicking away for hours.

At the very least, it would have been nice to have the skill check part like this:

person has:
- shawl x
- quested part
- drops

They give the drops and quested part (something that doesn't poof on failure) to a tradesperson who does the combine and gives it back. They then do a no-fail combine with their shawl x for the next shawl.

I just think that tradeskillers should be "making" the quests [happen] and not the quests making tradeskillers.

[Tuga]

Nolrog can ya' have Ashlanne look into two more items under #5. Experts level ore conversion; Ogre and Human. Ogres require dark ore, drops off A Soot Covered Miner in the Crypt of Nadox, an uncomon to rare drop off a mob in a zone that's much higher level than the armor is intended for. Humans require a Wooly Rhino Horn, drops off a Wooly Rhino in The Eastern Wastes, a quite rare drop off an uncomon mob there. The mob difficulty is about right for the wooly rhino, but even with a ranger tracking it's taking me 3 or 4 hours of hunting per horn and it takes 14 of them per suit. Since the mob is uncomon compared to the other wildlife of the area it would be nice if the drop rate was moved closer to a common drop. To give a refrence Half Elves use Fungus Sap and Frogloks use Gargoyle Eyes for their expert covnersions. With my lvl 46 Ranger I can produce about a stack an hour of each of these, one wooly rhino horn every 3 to 4 hours and can't possibly hunt Dark Ore. I'm not looking for the same drop rates, but if I could produce two per hour of the Ogre and Human converters with a level appropriate character I'd be quite happy.
Thanks for your help and thanks for taking on the daunting job of correspondant.

[Ysall]

Can we get a fix to the coarse silk drop rate. Casters are getting no access at all to the high end GM DoN stuff. For example, if you log onto any bazaar on any server, I guarantee you will see 10-20 glossy drake hides and metallic drake scales for sale between 10-15kp.

You will be lucky to see even one coarse silk, and if you do, it will be stupidly priced.

[Bumkus]

Can we get a fix to the coarse silk drop rate. Casters are getting no access at all to the high end GM DoN stuff. For example, if you log onto any bazaar on any server, I guarantee you will see 10-20 glossy drake hides and metallic drake scales for sale between 10-15kp.

You will be lucky to see even one coarse silk, and if you do, it will be stupidly priced.

This is because Course Spider Silk doesn't drop in Creator missions, which is, let's face it, the runaway hit of all DoN missions. Can silk class still tailor the aug's using the Glossy Drake Hides tho?

[Maevenniia]

This is because Course Spider Silk doesn't drop in Creator missions, which is, let's face it, the runaway hit of all DoN missions. Can silk class still tailor the aug's using the Glossy Drake Hides tho?

Yes, but we can't make the GM armor that the augments fit in


Solution:

Either make one of the Spider missions equally attractive as The Creator mission

OR

Add spiders to The Creator mission, instead of the stupid pumas or something.

[Xulan]

This is because Course Spider Silk doesn't drop in Creator missions, which is, let's face it, the runaway hit of all DoN missions. Can silk class still tailor the aug's using the Glossy Drake Hides tho?

I rarely do creator at all because I can't stand doing the same thing over and over. I just get a group together and then go pick something else and most of the people are relieved not to be doing another creator. They should put 6 hour lockouts on all the missions (when successful). Really. There are tons from which to choose.

I have never seen a piece of silk or swatch for sale in the bazaar.

There is the ascent spider mission and I believe a nest spider mission (that I can't tank yet, so haven't tried it).

What does need to be verified is that coarse silk drops 2x's as often since we need 2x's as much.

Edit: There are a few other missions that are as fast or almost as fast as creator and a lot more enjoyable. Just hard to get everyone to try new things.

[Quinnotetiquan]

Soy sause went live today.

Here is a thread for the result.
http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=23190

If a Super trophy isnt possible Id support new trophys such as this with an unfoldable right click for the respective skill.

[Bumkus]

I rarely do creator at all because I can't stand doing the same thing over and over. I just get a group together and then go pick something else and most of the people are relieved not to be doing another creator. They should put 6 hour lockouts on all the missions (when successful). Really. There are tons from which to choose.

Hmmm....
Agreed, then disagreed, now I am not really sure what I think. I like Creator because it is pretty open. Lots of room to move around. It would take a pretty powerful reward to get me into Lavaspinner's just because navigating the caves is, well, not really fun. And even if the reward was increased, I wouldn't be real happy about going there. Would view it more like work.
I also like Creator because it is fast, and I only play in 2 or 3 hour bursts. It is hard to pass up a mission that you can do in 45 minutes, when there are other missions, with increased risk of failure, that might take 1 1/2 hours to complete.

All this said, I do see a day when Creator crystal rewards are dropped, just to motivate people into other missions. However, I would prefer that they introduced better rewards for the other missions, as opposed to cutting back or Creator reward or introducing lockout.

Maybe they could drop the level of mission that is required to get GM ingrediants, in say, Lavapinners only. This would do 2 things. Get people to experience a wider range of missions, and increase the availiblility of the silks.

[Xulan]

Aye, I do agree with lavaspinners missions. They are the easiest and I avoid those =) It was very painful doing my GM symbol quest there. Thankfully some people took pitty on me and suffered through it.

There is actually quite a bit of room to kite in the nest (not sure if that was an issue) as the caves are wide enough to circle without being hit.

[Xulan]

Suggestion (not sure if top 10 material and I've seen this before, but):

Make salvage messages appear as a group message super please. This matters a lot when doing combines for other people who do not know you.