Close call

[Zacatac]

I was going to make the Master level legs, and put a Grandmaster level augment into them, and then put them up for sale and see what I could get for them (I didn't have enough supplies to make GM legs).

I went to Magelo and created the legs in a profile.


Master's Moonglade Greaves (Augmented)
MAGIC ITEM ATTUNEABLE
Slot: LEGS
AC: 42
STR: +12 DEX: +9 STA: +13 CHA: +9
WIS: +13 INT: +13 AGI: +11 HP: +110
MANA: +110 ENDUR: +110 SV FIRE: +9 SV DISEASE: +6
SV COLD: +9 SV MAGIC: +6 SV POISON: +6
Mana regeneration: +2
Damage shield: +2
Recommended level of 69.
Required level of 65.
WT: 5.0 Size: LARGE
Class: CLR PAL
Race: HIE
Slot 1, type 7: empty
Slot 2, type 11: Grandmaster's Legging Symbol of Growth
Slot 3, type 12: empty


Notice the magelo doesn't say anything about no-drop? Well it's wrong. Both the pants and the augment ARE tradeable, but not after you combine them.

Before I put the augment in, I decided to transfer the items to a High Elf Cleric character who could in fact where the pants (and was going to get them anyway if they didn't sell).

Putting the augment into the pants made them no-drop, specifically, it made the augment no-drop. After putting the augment in and attempting to trade the item back, I then removed the augment from the legs.

The legs became tradeable again, but the augment remained no-drop.

So at this point, the main part of the legs couldn't be sold, and I simply put the augment back on the pants and equipped them on the cleric.

But I surely would have been upset with myself if I was sitting there with an unusable, no-drop Grandmaster level augment in my magician's inventory!

[Kaaba]

That's because the augs are attuneable, once you affix an aug, it becomes no drop, because you have to equip the armor to put the aug on it.

[Twistagain]

That's because the augs are attuneable, once you affix an aug, it becomes no drop, because you have to equip the armor to put the aug on it.

You have to equip it to put an aug in it?? Why is that? Is there some flag that disallows you to put an aug in an attunable piece of gear until you have attuned it?

[Verdandi]

You do not have to equip either the armor or the augment to add the latter to the former. The act of combining a piece of attunable (not yet attuned) armor with an attunable (not yet attuned) augment in an Augmentation Sealer makes them both No Trade. Removing the augment will restore the armor to attunable status, provided the armor has not yet been worn, but will leave the augment as no trade permanently. I believe this is an inherent property of augments, that adding them to a piece of gear makes them permanently no trade, even if the augmented piece is never actually equipped.

[Zacatac]

Yes, Verdandi described what happend perfectly.

The armor was "attunable", however it had NEVER been equipped by anyone. But the augment became no-drop, as it had been "attuned" when it was placed into the armor. Even after seperating the pieces again, the augment remained no-drop despite never actually being equipped by anyone, while the pants became tradeable once more.

So I think it's something in the EQ code which prohibits anything augmented being tradeable.

[Kaaba]

Ah I see I was confused by the original message. That sounds like it's the case, doesn't matter if you don't actually equip the aug, it's attuned when it's added to the armor.

[Bobaten]

You have been confused by the "short hand" description of attuneable that most people use (becomes no drop if you equip it). If you read the original description of attuneable though, items become no drop when equipped, augments become no drop when they are inserted.

[Ngreth Thergn]

You have been confused by the "short hand" description of attuneable that most people use (becomes no drop if you equip it). If you read the original description of attuneable though, items become no drop when equipped, augments become no drop when they are inserted.

And from the... you can forward that for an augment... being inserted is being equiped... therefor... the base atunable rule (one equiped it becoems no-drop) is true

[Neebat]

If you read the original description of attuneable though, items become no drop when equipped, augments become no drop when they are inserted.

Where is this description you speak of? I'd be reassured if I could see it.

When you attempt to equip an ATTUNABLE item which isn't yet attuned, you get a dialog. This confirms that you items is about to become NO TRADE.

When you attempt to insert any aug into an item, you get a confirmation dialog. We're all used to seeing this dialog and think nothing of it. We've removed augs from items in the past. Removing an aug can be costly, but it works. We've always gotten the same aug right back, unaltered.

When you attempt to insert an ATTUNABLE aug, you get that same, standard dialog. The aug is being inserted, so you're warned, and since you intend to insert an aug, you move past it. Unfortunately, that dialog fails to warn you that you are ALSO attuning the aug.

This feels like a bug to me.

[Tanker]

Just to keep you from arguing facts...

Attunable augments become NO TRADE when inserted, and this is intended. I was the coder for that bit, and put it in as instructed. It is not a bug. I can think of reasons why they did it (and so can you), but have no direct knowledge of the thought processes involved.

As far as I know, no augmented item is currently tradeable, though an unworn Attunable item may become tradeable again after being augmented by removing its augments.

[Bobaten]

Where is this description you speak of? I'd be reassured if I could see it.

Some of the new Omens of War items will now display an "Attunable" attribute, which means that they can be traded freely until they become are equipped or augmented. Attunable augments will become no-drop flagged when added to an augment slot, attunable items will become no-drop when equipped. You will not be able to auto-equip an attunable item that has not been attuned to your character. Please be mindful of the new Attunable flag before equipping or augmenting new items.

The in game knowledge base contains pretty much the same description.

[Boleslav]

That's why Neebat said it feels like a bug, rather than saying it was a bug. It is operating as intended, but that operation doesn't seem intuitive or necessary.

What would the problem be with allowing an attuneable item augmented with a tradeable augment to remain tradeable and attuneable? Most augments are no trade, so it would seem easy to code it so that the resulting product gets the most restrictive attribute of the components. A no trade item auged would remain no trade and a no trade augment on a tradeable item would be no trade, but a tradeable item and a tradeable augment should yield a tradeable result in my book.

Tanker says that he can see some reasons for doing it the way it is done, and that we could too. I personally cannot, but I also realize I am pretty naïve in the way of exploits. Does anyone else have some ideas on this?

Boleslav

[Sylphan]

This is definitely something traders should watch out for.

However, there is already one check on aug combines meant to prevent this. I have a paladin-only shield on my enchanter that I use for the click effect. When I try to put an augment in it, I get a message 'that combine would create an item not useable by anyone', and the augment won't go in. A similar thing happens if you try to put a arm-slot augment into a piece of armor that doesn't fit in arm-slot.

I suspect this is what would have happened if the magician tried to combine those leggings.

[Silverfish]

Not Necessarily True

Sylphan wrote:

"However, there is already one check on aug combines meant to prevent this. I have a paladin-only shield on my enchanter that I use for the click effect. When I try to put an augment in it, I get a message 'that combine would create an item not useable by anyone', and the augment won't go in. A similar thing happens if you try to put a arm-slot augment into a piece of armor that doesn't fit in arm-slot.

I suspect this is what would have happened if the magician tried to combine those leggings."

Not true in this case. As you can see, the combine he described was combining Master's Moonglade pants with a GM Tunare augment, which would have made an item wearable by High Elf clerics and Paladins. If he'd done that on the magician character, that would have made an item that he couldn't wear, but not an item unusable by anyone, as would a combine of an arm-only augment with an item that doesn't fit arms. I suspect you tried to put a class- or slot-restricted augment in your shield, and one of the augment's classes wasn't paladin (or slot wasn't secondary), but in this case he'd have made an item he couldn't equip but not "not usable by anyone". For a test, try putting an augment on that shield that's usable by paladins and allows slotting in secondary, and I bet it'll give you the standard "do you want to insert this?" warning instead.

Silverfish

[Bengali]

The weird thing is, both Silverfish and Sylphan are right, sorta.

As Slyphan said, for some reason non-paladins can't augment a Shield of the Immaculate, even if they are using the proper type of augment. A friend of mine tried to do that using an all/all augment that was usable in every slot except for charm, and he still got the message that he couldn't do the combine because it would result in an unusable item (that's not the exact language of the message). The resulting item wouldn't have been unusable by anyone (theoretically a paladin could have used it) but it wouldn't let him do the combine.

However, for whatever reason, this same check doesn't occur when you try to do a cultural combine. I just logged on my bazaar mule, a human warrior, and bought some expert's vah anima sleeves and an expert's sleeve symbol of the skeptic. I combined them with no problems, and the result was a NO TRADE ATTUNEABLE pair of sleeves wearable only by Vah Shir BSTs.

I don't know the reason for the different messages (or lack thereof) but that's what happens in game.