Meeting with Maddoc and Absor at the Fan Faire

[Ngreth Thergn]

They did more clearly state at the Tradeskill pannel on the last day... That DoN Cultural Master and Grandmaster armor has a 5-10% skillup chance.

Tanker also gave use the new skiilup formula.

My calculator on site curently uses it (has for a few days... I was just quiet about it.)

http://www.eqtraders.com/calculators...r=130000000000

I will post a more detailed formula when I can. My main computer is out of cooling fluid!!! so It overheats... will get it running as soon as I can Or Somoene can trump me

There are nice graphs too!

[AbsorEQ]

Once.. prolly a year or so ago, maybe a little more.. the Devs at one point did say that there were 3k+ recipes we didn't know about, but that was before the tradeskill UI change.. I'm sure alot of those recipes are now *known* somewhere even if no one pays attention to them. I mean really, has someone sat down with each tradeskill UI open and done a comparative search from 0-335 of what recipes are listed in each tradeskill ui against the EQtraders database? talk about time consuming.... and NO Kyros, I'm not volunteering either . thank you very much.

I remember that comment. I don't know who said it or where that data came from, but they said there were three thousand plus ITEMS that were undiscovered. Personally, I suspect those items aren't discovered because they were never meant to be discovered (test items to see how something will function and things like that).

As for going back and adding in or completing recipes that were never finished by someone four years ago, I'm not a big fan of it. I have no way of knowing why that particular recipe was never finished or what the intent was for that recipe, so I usually end up having to guess my way through creating whatever is missing. It's not a really productive use of my time, it takes less time to make a new recipe from scratch than it does to finish one started by someone years ago. That being said, feel free to make a list of recipes that aren't complete and send them to me. Odds are that I won't have time to work on them, but if I do I will.

A

[AbsorEQ]

...
Where exactly is the communication breakdown that they wouldn't know about leg slot type 12? This is a sign that something is very wrong.

...

Getting rare ingredients is more than twice as hard as getting common ingredients, so changing skillup rates will make little difference... plus we might not even be able to tell which recipes have the enhancement. Also keep in mind that most enhanced recipes will get less-than-10%.

...

We knew about the type 12 slot thing, I read about it here. The real issue is that we haven't had time to figure out why that happened. Without having looked at the data we tend to clam up about giving a response other than "we'll look at it."

As for the skill up chance, for the top end Cultural combines your chance to skill up can be as much as 1 in 10, which is twice as good as it was before the curve change and possibly 4 times as good as it was after.

Let me say this here, though I said it several times at Fan Faire, we're a sorry that it has taken so long to get these changes finished. We have a lot of excuses, but excuses don't really cut it. It's a long project that requires a lot of concentrated time to get done. We had no intention that it would take as long as it looks like it will take to complete, and we're sorry about the fact that we've sort of caught you in the middle of the process and stuck you there.

A

[Delores Mulva]

As for the skill up chance, for the top end Cultural combines your chance to skill up can be as much as 1 in 10, which is twice as good as it was before the curve change and possibly 4 times as good as it was after.

You may wish to firm up how you discuss such things now that the actual skillup formulae are known. I believe you mean to say that the "Pass 2" percentage on top end cultural will be one in ten, correct? I make this point because, in practice, very few people will be able to hit the maximum 10% chance because of sub-415 WIS/INT, difficulty factor of tradeskill, and/or failing combines. Smithing, tailoring, tinkering, and poison making will be the only trades where any increased skillup chance could be "proven" by players.

[Ngreth Thergn]

You may wish to firm up how you discuss such things now that the actual skillup formulae are known. I believe you mean to say that the "Pass 2" percentage on top end cultural will be one in ten, correct? I make this point because, in practice, very few people will be able to hit the maximum 10% chance because of sub-415 WIS/INT, difficulty factor of tradeskill, and/or failing combines. Smithing, tailoring, tinkering, and poison making will be the only trades where any increased skillup chance could be "proven" by players.

Well this does bring up something I was not sure was answered.

When is the "min skillup" used?
Since there are 2 passes... how do you do the "10%" ?
if it is only after pass 1 then yeah... even then it is not guaranteed 10%... just higher chance than it may have been.

[Phantron]

What happens if you make a combine with an elevated min chance to succeed (say 5%) but your chance on that skill level is greater than the modified chance? I suppose it's too much to ask for them to be added, but we at least get the higher one, right?

[KyrosKrane]

My understanding based on some discussions is that the minimum skillup chance overrides the entire formula. You will get whichever skillup chance is higher, the end-result formula value or the per-recipe min_skillup_value. Of course, I could have misunderstood this.

[emandes]

First - better skillup with DoN GM armor or OoW augment combines with 1 out of 10 - for skillup purposes - forget it
I receive the loot of a lot of my guildies and had from start of OoW til today approx.
10 combines of black gold inlet
20 combines of white gold inlet

and I do have 5 in word FIVE metallic drake scales out of approx. 100 DoN missions.

With your formula used I will get 3 skillups over a period of 4-5 months that approx. 30+ players are collecting items.

In comparison I have made approx. 100 to 120 combine with magnetic armor and actually got 6-7 skillups on that.

My suggestion - assign 10% skillup ration on items that drop rare but frequently like magnetic armor and rise the probability for inlet and DoN GM to 50% or at least 30%. If you look on my figures that would result statistically in 17 skillups for an guild smith.

Current I have 239 base skill in smithing, a 15% moditem, BSM3 and salvage3 and I wouldn't give a DoN armor item a try unless I reached 260 base skill giving me a 80% chance of success. To reach 260 I have either to get hands on 300 magnetic combines or screw through 400 combines of mistle sickles. First will take 3-4 months till completed - second will bankrupt me before reaching the target.

[YurienStonebow]

First - better skillup with DoN GM armor or OoW augment combines with 1 out of 10 - for skillup purposes - forget it
I receive the loot of a lot of my guildies and had from start of OoW til today approx.
10 combines of black gold inlet
20 combines of white gold inlet

and I do have 5 in word FIVE metallic drake scales out of approx. 100 DoN missions.

With your formula used I will get 3 skillups over a period of 4-5 months that approx. 30+ players are collecting items.

In comparison I have made approx. 100 to 120 combine with magnetic armor and actually got 6-7 skillups on that.

My suggestion - assign 10% skillup ration on items that drop rare but frequently like magnetic armor and rise the probability for inlet and DoN GM to 50% or at least 30%. If you look on my figures that would result statistically in 17 skillups for an guild smith.

Current I have 239 base skill in smithing, a 15% moditem, BSM3 and salvage3 and I wouldn't give a DoN armor item a try unless I reached 260 base skill giving me a 80% chance of success. To reach 260 I have either to get hands on 300 magnetic combines or screw through 400 combines of mistle sickles. First will take 3-4 months till completed - second will bankrupt me before reaching the target.

why do tradeskills have to be such expensive plat sinks?? not all of us can afford to spend a million plat on trades. i'm doing good to get my skills to 250 sometimes

[Rissenn]

To reach 260 I have either to get hands on 300 magnetic combines or screw through 400 combines of mistle sickles. First will take 3-4 months till completed - second will bankrupt me before reaching the target.

Here is what you *can* do: Look in the bazaar for magnetic parts Helm (3), Pauldrons (3), Boots (2), Vambraces (2), Gauntlets (2). The number indicate how many magnetic metal bricks they break down into. Then look in Bazaar for Breastplates and Leggings and at times Helms. These sell real well and would allow you to keep buying more and more stock, remake and sell etc, etc. Also keep offering to buy from people you notice often have these items, even as they just get them in. In the end they will shoot you a tell straight off instead of putting them up for sale.

I have been doing this ever since I hit 300 smith, and I have been making good cash on buying, converting, and selling for a low price. Rarely I have items on me longer than a few hours in bazaar.

[emandes]

Good idea Rissenn - it'll work on your server - it won't on mine.
Kael Drakkal is really underpopulated now due to the dissension of SoE and Ubisoft.
Primetime bazar attendances - 26 vendors 4 customers.
There are 3 time+ raiding guilds left with approx. 200 mains (mine is one of them) whose players don't need magnetic anymore. I guess there will be max 200 players left in family guild - most of them level 40 to 65.

I always check bazar for components. Min price is mostly 20% above the price of the combine result, so it would be cheaper to buy a combine result and get bars out of them then to buy the broken ones.
Prices for boots helms vambraces are approx. 1500 plat. The prices for the appropriate broken boots helm vambrace is 2k+. The two or three vendors offering broken parts are not flexible and ask 5k+ for a broken bracer part.

So what I do is:
I get the loot from my guildies, I combine the broken one with the components on stock and convert the results directly to bars and those to metallic patch plates. So I do only have the copper plates and each sixth combine a bar (for bolts) lost as productional costs - plus the fails of combines - lost a bp yesterday.
Sometimes I am lucky and get 10 or 20 mistle sickles sold for 300 each to a guildmate who tributes them, so that I have my production costs covered.

It's unusual on KD to pay a tradeskiller for a combine unless its obvious that its due to commercial purpose, i.e. the intention of the char asking for a combine is to sell the item in bazar or by ooc.

[YurienStonebow]

i goa round telling people i will do combines jsut on the chance of a skillup. i can't farm a lot of the materials for some trades but am able to make most anything now. i even go so far as asking people with xxx ingreidnt if i can make them more money turning it into something else heh

desperate for combines

[YurienStonebow]

i jsut now thought of this and as far as i know nobody ahs ever asked this before......is there a maximum amount of combines before a skillup? basically if i make 1000 combines (regardless fail or succesS) would i then get a skillup or i it all RNG? i fogured you would be the best to ask since you have lunch with the devs :P

[KyrosKrane]

I didn't actually ask about this, but I remember hearing about someone who (before the formula changes) went over 1200 combines without a skillup. If you hunt in the older posts, you could probably find it.

From what I've seen in the formulae, there's no set cap on the number of attempts before a skillup, in part because you have to allow for absurd situations that can easily create these kinds of huge runs. Assume for the sake of argument that you tried to skill from 0-300 in the tradeskill of your choice with a prime stat of 70, and doing a 335 trivial combine all the way. How many average combines per skillup do you think you'd need, particularly at the high end? Granted, it's a highly improbable scenario, but it's one that is possible, so the formula has to take it into account.

[Bolas]

I know of someoen that did 500 combines of mistletoe cutting sickles without a single skill up. bleah. what a waste of plats.

-Bolas