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Tradeskills are a beefy issue in general, and it's rare you'll find a question that's worth asking and has a short, simple answer. Thus, I asked Maddoc and Absor for a chance to sit down with them and ask them some of the weightier topics that have come up in the tradeskill world. Much to my delight, they accepted, and earlier today, I sat down for a late lunch with Jason Mash (Maddoc), Alan VanCouvering (Absor), Ian Noble (Keridon, one of the devs who worked on some of the tradeskill quests), and Charles Bryant (another designer who's worked on tradeskills).
Over the course of lunch, our discussions ranged far and wide over the course of the tradeskill world, from what developers actually do, to where tradeskills should be in the greater scheme of things, to some ideas for future development.
The first thing I asked was for some background on what Maddoc and Absor do when not working on tradeskilling. Absor said he works mostly in design, putting together new ideas and projects for the game, doing documentation, and in particular, annoying Maddoc and doing his work. Maddoc promptly retorted that he spends most of his time fixing everything Absor had done for him! When not focused on that, Maddoc also serves in a managerial capacity (his official title is Assistant Lead Designer); he's usually the go-to guy if a developer has an issue that needs to get addressed. One noteworthy aspect of Maddoc's job is that he's the guy in overall charge of the patching process, which I imagine means many a sleepless night when the game has a big patch.
My main goal was to get some idea of where Absor and Maddoc felt that tradeskills should fit in the game - that is, what is their philosophy behind tradeskills? The answer was a tad generic; they both agreed that tradeskills should be useful and fun, citing examples like the Omens augments and the DoN cultural armors.
They countered by asking me where tradeskill made items should rank in the game world. I replied that ideally, the best items you can get through single-group stuff or in the bazaar should be tradeskill-made. I pointed out that in Planes of Power (the last expansion that had a set of high-end tradeskill-made gear), the elemental armors were far and away the best you could get with one group or in the bazaar; whereas the DoN cultural armors were surprisingly weak compared to one-group armor such as Omens Tier 1 quest armor or DoN crystal-purchased armors.
This led us into an interesting discussion on where tradeskills stand today. The devs did tell me that DoN armors are going to be reviewed soon; in some slots, they're not as good as they should be. For example, I made up a quick comparison chart for Grandmaster plate bracers, and they agreed that they would have to revisit the DoN armors to make sure that they were in line with comparable armor sets. In addition, many items in Alchemy are not where the developers would like them to be, and Alchemy will likely get a review soon too.
One interesting note that came out of the meeting was that the DoN cultural armors got changed fairly late in the development cycle. Instead of having a base plus aug model, instead there was a unique, finished item for every possible combination. Apparently this original design was so item-intensive that tradeskills accounted for over three-fourths the items in the expansion, or something like 10,000 unique items! Thankfully, they switched to the current (and much more flexible!) system.
As we continued to discuss the DoN armors, I pointed out that the leg slot did not have an Omens type 12 augment. Absor and Maddoc were both quite surprised at this, stating most emphatically that it was not intentional. They're going to go back and try to figure out why the legs don't have a type 12.
Our discussion moved on to tailoring. As most tailors now know, the trivials of many high-end tailoring items were lowered sooner than expected. I have had a number of people insist that I bring this up in detail with the developers and demand a change, but I was more interested in hearing their side of why this change was made. As it turns out, it was indeed unintended. Maddoc had been testing some changes for tailoring, and he forgot to reset them to their original values. He did insist that the trivials will not be changed back; doing so at this point will just cause that much more aggravation. I suggested that one possibility to help tailors was to lower the difficulty of tailoring from three to two, making tailoring somewhat easier to skill up, particularly for those who cannot get their primary stat to over 300. Maddoc and Absor said they'd consider it, but they didn't seem too enthused over the idea.
On the flip side of the coin, I did get some more information on what they plan to do for the future. The intent at the simplest level is as follows. The most powerful items will either retain their trivial or get a slight adjustment, including upwards if need be. Other items will be scaled against these top items, and their trivials will be lowered raised in proportion to their power as a useful item. As a result, many current skillup paths like banded armor or Wu's armor will have significantly reduced trivials; but it will also introduce new skillup paths as items that had some usefulness and power before will possibly get an increase in trivial. This will create a full spectrum of trivials in each tradeskill, rather than clumps of trivials at certain sets. It will also eliminate having items with no meaningful stats getting insanely high trivials. The main problem with this is that it takes time to ensure that the system is fair and consistent; you don't want to end up with any odd scenarios like the wrist slot of a set having a higher trivial than the chest slot.
The other major change is that combines that require rare or hard-to-farm components will get a higher chance to skill up on each combine. This is independent of their trivial. So, for example, banded armor is entirely store-bought, so it will not have a skillup bonus. In contrast, something like the PoP elemental armors require several very rare components, so they might have an increased chance of skilling up on each combine. . (The capability to add an enhanced chance to skill up is already live, but so far, no recipes use it.) Once again, this is an issue that will take time to ensure the skillup chances are approportioned fairly.
In addition, all the DoN armors and the Omens tradeskilled augments will carry an enhanced chance. Absor mentioned that some very difficult items could get a 10% chance to skill up (this number is still under discussion and may be raised or lowered, but they seem comfortable with it for a first estimate), which means that on average, you could skill up to 300 with about ten combines per skillup. For comparison, with the old formula it would take an average of 20 combines per skillup (meaning a reduction of 50% in average combines needed); and with the new formula as it stands now, people have been seeing much higher combines per skillup. When the per-combine chances are implemented, they should significantly ease the skillup pains people are seeing at the high end.
Finally, the devs are not averse to adding new recipes to fill in any gaps in the progression of both trivials and power levels of items. They haven't decided yet whether these recipes will be part of a new expansion or free for all players. Either way, these will not be coming soon; the recipes would have to be made after the previous adjustments had gone live and been evaluated.
I asked about when these changes were going live. They said they hope the changes can be made in time for the next patch (not the one on June 22) or the one after that, but due to the scope of the changes, this is not an issue they want to rush. And personally, I'd be much happier if I knew they had taken an extra week or two to vet the changes and make sure it all made sense.
Our talk about DoN tradeskills meandered on a bit, and we chatted a bit about the DoN kill/collect quests for the DoN cultural augment books. I pointed out how aggravating it is for one person (the one doing the quest) to have to loot each item personally. If I am the tank, for example, I rarely have the chance to loot; I'm too busy controlling the next mob or tanking the current one. This is why groups have one person designated as looter. We discussed the possibility of allowing any person to loot but still updating the quest counter, but apparently this would run into code issues. Nevertheless, they did make a note of this issue and said they'd talk it over with the code people.
Another topic we discussed was fletching. Absor flatly stated that fletching was messed up as far as skilling up. This is something the devs know about and they're actively working to get some alternatives out there.
I asked them whether it was still necessary to have Tanaan containers, particularly brew barrels and forges, given that PoK is now a free zone for all players. After some discussion, they agreed that this would be an easy enough change to implement, and they said they would review whether there was still a real need for Tanaan-specific containers.
We went on to discuss several other subjects from my list of questions, but I'll include those updates with tomorrow's responses. I also handed them an additional two pages of questions collated from postings made after I'd sent them the initial Big List. (I think Absor now believes my goal in life is to deliver whole trees' worth of paper to him just to make him think!)
I'd like to thank all four of the developers for taking time out to chat with me. I know that there's a lot they can't really tell us, but I found them to be refreshingly open and candid. I thoroughly enjoyed my time with them, and I hope to have more questions and answers with them tomorrow at the tradeskill panel.
Over the course of lunch, our discussions ranged far and wide over the course of the tradeskill world, from what developers actually do, to where tradeskills should be in the greater scheme of things, to some ideas for future development.
The first thing I asked was for some background on what Maddoc and Absor do when not working on tradeskilling. Absor said he works mostly in design, putting together new ideas and projects for the game, doing documentation, and in particular, annoying Maddoc and doing his work. Maddoc promptly retorted that he spends most of his time fixing everything Absor had done for him! When not focused on that, Maddoc also serves in a managerial capacity (his official title is Assistant Lead Designer); he's usually the go-to guy if a developer has an issue that needs to get addressed. One noteworthy aspect of Maddoc's job is that he's the guy in overall charge of the patching process, which I imagine means many a sleepless night when the game has a big patch.
My main goal was to get some idea of where Absor and Maddoc felt that tradeskills should fit in the game - that is, what is their philosophy behind tradeskills? The answer was a tad generic; they both agreed that tradeskills should be useful and fun, citing examples like the Omens augments and the DoN cultural armors.
They countered by asking me where tradeskill made items should rank in the game world. I replied that ideally, the best items you can get through single-group stuff or in the bazaar should be tradeskill-made. I pointed out that in Planes of Power (the last expansion that had a set of high-end tradeskill-made gear), the elemental armors were far and away the best you could get with one group or in the bazaar; whereas the DoN cultural armors were surprisingly weak compared to one-group armor such as Omens Tier 1 quest armor or DoN crystal-purchased armors.
This led us into an interesting discussion on where tradeskills stand today. The devs did tell me that DoN armors are going to be reviewed soon; in some slots, they're not as good as they should be. For example, I made up a quick comparison chart for Grandmaster plate bracers, and they agreed that they would have to revisit the DoN armors to make sure that they were in line with comparable armor sets. In addition, many items in Alchemy are not where the developers would like them to be, and Alchemy will likely get a review soon too.
One interesting note that came out of the meeting was that the DoN cultural armors got changed fairly late in the development cycle. Instead of having a base plus aug model, instead there was a unique, finished item for every possible combination. Apparently this original design was so item-intensive that tradeskills accounted for over three-fourths the items in the expansion, or something like 10,000 unique items! Thankfully, they switched to the current (and much more flexible!) system.
As we continued to discuss the DoN armors, I pointed out that the leg slot did not have an Omens type 12 augment. Absor and Maddoc were both quite surprised at this, stating most emphatically that it was not intentional. They're going to go back and try to figure out why the legs don't have a type 12.
Our discussion moved on to tailoring. As most tailors now know, the trivials of many high-end tailoring items were lowered sooner than expected. I have had a number of people insist that I bring this up in detail with the developers and demand a change, but I was more interested in hearing their side of why this change was made. As it turns out, it was indeed unintended. Maddoc had been testing some changes for tailoring, and he forgot to reset them to their original values. He did insist that the trivials will not be changed back; doing so at this point will just cause that much more aggravation. I suggested that one possibility to help tailors was to lower the difficulty of tailoring from three to two, making tailoring somewhat easier to skill up, particularly for those who cannot get their primary stat to over 300. Maddoc and Absor said they'd consider it, but they didn't seem too enthused over the idea.
On the flip side of the coin, I did get some more information on what they plan to do for the future. The intent at the simplest level is as follows. The most powerful items will either retain their trivial or get a slight adjustment, including upwards if need be. Other items will be scaled against these top items, and their trivials will be lowered raised in proportion to their power as a useful item. As a result, many current skillup paths like banded armor or Wu's armor will have significantly reduced trivials; but it will also introduce new skillup paths as items that had some usefulness and power before will possibly get an increase in trivial. This will create a full spectrum of trivials in each tradeskill, rather than clumps of trivials at certain sets. It will also eliminate having items with no meaningful stats getting insanely high trivials. The main problem with this is that it takes time to ensure that the system is fair and consistent; you don't want to end up with any odd scenarios like the wrist slot of a set having a higher trivial than the chest slot.
The other major change is that combines that require rare or hard-to-farm components will get a higher chance to skill up on each combine. This is independent of their trivial. So, for example, banded armor is entirely store-bought, so it will not have a skillup bonus. In contrast, something like the PoP elemental armors require several very rare components, so they might have an increased chance of skilling up on each combine. . (The capability to add an enhanced chance to skill up is already live, but so far, no recipes use it.) Once again, this is an issue that will take time to ensure the skillup chances are approportioned fairly.
In addition, all the DoN armors and the Omens tradeskilled augments will carry an enhanced chance. Absor mentioned that some very difficult items could get a 10% chance to skill up (this number is still under discussion and may be raised or lowered, but they seem comfortable with it for a first estimate), which means that on average, you could skill up to 300 with about ten combines per skillup. For comparison, with the old formula it would take an average of 20 combines per skillup (meaning a reduction of 50% in average combines needed); and with the new formula as it stands now, people have been seeing much higher combines per skillup. When the per-combine chances are implemented, they should significantly ease the skillup pains people are seeing at the high end.
Finally, the devs are not averse to adding new recipes to fill in any gaps in the progression of both trivials and power levels of items. They haven't decided yet whether these recipes will be part of a new expansion or free for all players. Either way, these will not be coming soon; the recipes would have to be made after the previous adjustments had gone live and been evaluated.
I asked about when these changes were going live. They said they hope the changes can be made in time for the next patch (not the one on June 22) or the one after that, but due to the scope of the changes, this is not an issue they want to rush. And personally, I'd be much happier if I knew they had taken an extra week or two to vet the changes and make sure it all made sense.
Our talk about DoN tradeskills meandered on a bit, and we chatted a bit about the DoN kill/collect quests for the DoN cultural augment books. I pointed out how aggravating it is for one person (the one doing the quest) to have to loot each item personally. If I am the tank, for example, I rarely have the chance to loot; I'm too busy controlling the next mob or tanking the current one. This is why groups have one person designated as looter. We discussed the possibility of allowing any person to loot but still updating the quest counter, but apparently this would run into code issues. Nevertheless, they did make a note of this issue and said they'd talk it over with the code people.
Another topic we discussed was fletching. Absor flatly stated that fletching was messed up as far as skilling up. This is something the devs know about and they're actively working to get some alternatives out there.
I asked them whether it was still necessary to have Tanaan containers, particularly brew barrels and forges, given that PoK is now a free zone for all players. After some discussion, they agreed that this would be an easy enough change to implement, and they said they would review whether there was still a real need for Tanaan-specific containers.
We went on to discuss several other subjects from my list of questions, but I'll include those updates with tomorrow's responses. I also handed them an additional two pages of questions collated from postings made after I'd sent them the initial Big List. (I think Absor now believes my goal in life is to deliver whole trees' worth of paper to him just to make him think!)
I'd like to thank all four of the developers for taking time out to chat with me. I know that there's a lot they can't really tell us, but I found them to be refreshingly open and candid. I thoroughly enjoyed my time with them, and I hope to have more questions and answers with them tomorrow at the tradeskill panel.
Thanks for taking the time to write that up Kyros, your work is appreciated
Hoping that I can stockpile a fair amount of materials for some serious skill runs before the DoN skillup adjustment goes live, will be a true blessing for my dwarven junior smith.
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