250-300 Skill up Data collection Thread #3

[Maevenniia]

Ever hear the expression "3rd time's the charm?"

How about "3 strikes and your out?"

As Ngreth promised in the previous thread, if moderator attaention was required you risked the deletion of the thread. It was required and the thread has been sent into oblivion.

Against my better judgment I am opening up this thread, for the same purpose as before:

COLLECTING DATA on skilling up from 250 - 300.

Please feel free to post your results Bad AND Good. Please give as much useful information as you can such as how many combines starting and ending skill, any geerlocks and what your appropriate stat is at.

NO RANTS. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. If you can't follow the rules and refrain from name-calling, you will be taking a long vacation off a short pier, to mix my metaphors.

[Elfdruidess]

Is it possible for the mods to re-print some of the hard data that was collected in Thread #2? Just the lists of numbers. Don't need any of the analysis of the numbers that went with it. Those lists of numbers are important data and it would be a pity if they are lost.

[Maevenniia]

Data from previous thread:

Over the past weekend. I did about 440 poison making combines. My starting skill was 275. DEX was maxed at 255. Recipe used was Scoriae Bite. All combines in the guild hall. Geerlok was not equipped.

First 100ish combines, I got 5 skill ups.
Second 100ish combines, I got 3 skill ups.
Next 200ish combines, I got three skill ups.

I use ish because I didn't get the exact number. I had 100 vials to use, and failed a few times. That resulted in an extra combine chance. I had enough suspension and other stuff to do extra combines (just the advanced vials were lacking, and a real pain to make, but I digress.) Overall, I did about 440 combines, and got 11 skill ups, for a rate of about 1 skill up per 40 combines.

A gnomish-sized bit of data:

My gnome (255 Intelligance) did 100 Molten Metal Bow Cam (282 trivial) combinations this past weekend and went from 258 to 261 tinkering.

And my halfling (255 wisdom) went from 184 to 187 tailoring with three platinum ribbon combinations, which just proves that the RNG has a sense of humor.

note: Brody's gnome's skillup rate: a skillup per 33 combines

[Maevenniia]

More data :

These are only what I remember, accurate to +-10, all post patch:

Smithing
242-250 ~50 combines
Tailoring
252-264 ~200 combines
264-268 ~110 combines

My stats are all maxed for a War (365). I don't remember if I've a focus when I did smithing. Most likely not.

nb: above data indicates averages of 1 skillup per 6 combines for Smithing, and 1 skillup per 19 combines for Tailoring.

Looking at my notes and some of my posts here.

All final combines done in the bazaar to facilitate tranfer to mules.

Starting skill:268
final skill:300
Number of final combines: 2994

Used trophy until 293 and then dumped it on a hunch. Hunch didn't work. All recipes attempted were either Mithril Champion or Blessed Mithril Wood-elf/Tunare Cultural with a trivial of 335.

Wisdom 405 at all times.

Success rates from around 285 on were about 95% with sometimes as few as 1 or 2 failures in a run of 200 combines.

All post patch. (Edit... pre 5/11 patch of course)

NB: above data indicates average skillup rate of 1 skillup per 93 combines

[mewkus]

I originally posted this in the alchemy forum (may 23rd) and thought I'd put a copy of it here

I just did a whole slew of skill up work. From 207 (where I started) through 280 I it was pretty consistantly about 15 attempts per skill up. But once I hit 280, it got bad. The next three skill ups all took between 80 and 100 attempts. I was making ensnaring concoctions (triv 311). With such a large disparity between my skill and trivial, I equipped my geerlok (for more sucesses). From 275 to 280 was still about 15 attempt. At skill 280 I went through 80 combines (4 stacks), got frsutrated and swapped geerlok back out for epic (went from 363 to 370 wis), and got a skill up on the next attempt. While not normally supersititous, I did leave the epic equiped for the remainer of my supplies. I guess it's time to make the alchemy trophy as it gives both wis and skill mod.

This was about two weeks ago. Since then I've done more attempts and the attempts per skill up seem to have settled down to about 40 to 50 per (from 287 to 291). But the first chunk of the 280s was just horendous. I am now doing everything with 370wis and 5% mod.

[Maevenniia]

more data:

All post-patch, 450 Str for smithing, 375 Wis for other combines.

Tailoring (othmir fur caps, 262 trivial, with GM needle)
248 - 34 success, 1 fail, 1 skill-up
249 - 38 success, 1 fail, 1 skill-up
250 - 4 successes, 0 fail, 0 skill-up

Pottery (hand-formed bottle, 271 trivial, with GM sculptor)
250 - 32 success, 2 failure, 0 skill-up

Jewelcraft (velium ruby veil, trivial 282, with GM eyeglass)
279 - 60 success, 2 failure, 0 skill-up

Smithing (shadowscream gauntlets, trivial 262, with GM hammer)
248 - 16 combines, 0 failure, 1 skill-up
249 - 28 combines, 0 failure, 1 skill-up
250 - 24 combines, 0 failure, 1 skill-up
251 - 12 combines, 1 failure, 1 skill-up
252 - 28 combines, 0 failure, 1 skill-up
253 - 4 combines, 0 failure, 1 skill-up
254 - 36 combines, 1 failure, 0 skill-up

post-patch

JC, geerlok equipped
skill 287 to start (or today, when i started keeping track... i'd done 120+ non-trivial combines at 287 with no skill-up beforehand)

287
(120+, unknown failures)
12 combines, 0 fail
288
70 combines, 5 fail
289
2 combines, 0 fail
290
3 combines, 0 fail
291
15 combine, 0 fail
(no further skill-up tonight)

Post-patch:

Jewelcraft
starting skill 293
Wisdom over 400, but I didn't make note of the exact number.

96 attempts making velium blue diamond bracelets

2 skillups

7 failures.

Final skill--295.

Now, to find the roughly 250 more BDs I'll need to get to 300 /cry.

Fudapuda
Bertox

INT at 390 doing smithing from 259 to 289 i used 543 combines of misteltoe sickles.

and then currentely at 295 skill with 79 more combines

ok hit a snag 200 or so combines at 296 now.

Wis 375

MTPs attempts 1289
Failures 52
skill-up from 291 - 293

No Baking spoon

NB: later posted to clarify that 1289 was indeed the # of combines not the # of picnics (at yield of 4 per combine) .

[Maevenniia]

more data:

All combines were done after the first tradeskill patch:

Pottery (Star Ruby Encrusted Steins):
335 wis, starting skill 250+geerlok, pre-4/20 patch:
400 combines, 12 skillups (to 262 skill)=33.33 combines per skillup
335 wis, starting skill 262+geerlok, post-4/20 patch, pre-5/11 patch:
200 combines, 0 skillups

Jewelcraft (Gem Studded Chains):
335 wis, starting skill 290+geerlok, pre-4/20 patch:
200 combines, 7 skillups (to 297 skill)=28.57 combines per skillup
335 wis, starting skill 297+geerlok, post 4/20 patch, pre-5/11 patch:
200 combines, 1 skillup (to 298 skill)=200 combines per skillup

Tailoring (Ceremonial Solstice Robes):
350 wis, starting skill 234+geerlok, post-5/11 patch:
242 combines, 11 skillups (to 245 skill)=22.0 combines per skillup

I wonder if the 4/20 and 5/11 patches affected tradeskills above 150 skill?

This data is also in other threads, but since we're trying to collect data in one place, I'll copy the raw numbers here.

All of the following was after the April update and patch, but before the May update (if that matters). All Pottery, in various locations, with and without geerlok, as noted below. The first stretch used a recipe far above my current skill, but even given the failure rate (which was very close to the expected value) I should've gotten more skillups than I did. Here are the numbers.

Wisdom 255 throughout.

In Guild Hall, skill 122+geerlok, Unfired Casserole Dish (triv 199)
Combines  Successes  Failures  Skillup
    4         3          1      -> 123
    4         2          2      -> 124
   11         4          7      -> 125
    5         3          2      -> 126
    5         4          1      -> 127
    2         1          1      -> 128
    2         0          2      -> 129
    5         1          4      -> 130
   19        11          8      -> 131
    2         1          1      -> 132
   14         6          8      -> 133
   35        11         24      -> 134
   10         3          7      -> 135
    4         2          2      -> 136
   32        11         21      -> 137
    7         2          5      -> 138
   23         7         16      -> 139
   40        19         21      -> 140
   23        15          8      -> 141
   17         9          8      -> 142
    3         2          1      -> 143
   47        22         25      -> 144
   17        10          7      -> 145
   12         5          7      -> 146
    4         4          0      -> 147
    1         1          0      -> 148
   18        11          7      -> 149
    8         5          3      -> 150
    6         4          2      -> 151
   13         6          7      -> 152
   10         7          3      none

Total: 403 combines (192 success, 211 failure), 30 skillups
(very low skillup rate given the relatively low skill range involved)

In Abysmal Sea, skill 152+geerlok, Unfired Casserole Dish (triv 199)
Combines  Successes  Failures  Skillup
    7         7          0      -> 153
   25        15         10      -> 154
    7         5          2      -> 155
   24        16          8      -> 156
    1         1          0      -> 157
   13         7          6      -> 158
    4         4          0      -> 159
   66        46         20      -> 160
    6         1          5      none

Total: 153 combines (102 success, 51 failure), 8 skillups

In Abysmal Sea, skill 160+geerlok, Unfired Lined Poison Vial (triv 168)
Combines  Successes  Failures  Skillup
    6         6          0      -> 161
    6         6          0      -> 162
    7         7          0      -> 163
   11        10          1      -> 164
   26        23          3      -> 165
   48        43          5      -> 166
    9         9          0      -> 167
   55        51          4      -> 168

Total: 168 combines (155 success, 13 failure), 8 skillups

In Abysmal Sea, skill 168+geerlok, Unfired Sealed Poison Vial (triv 188)
Combines  Successes  Failures  Skillup
   30        24          6      -> 169
   22        20          2      -> 170
   42        37          5      -> 171
   43        37          6      -> 172
   56        51          5      -> 173
    8         8          0      -> 174
   31        28          3      none

Total: 232 combines (205 success, 27 failure), 6 skillups

In Abysmal Sea, skill 174 w/o geerlok, Unfired Sealed Poison Vial (triv 188)
Combines  Successes  Failures  Skillup
  100        83         17      none

Total: 100 combines (83 success, 17 failure), 0 skillups

Grand Total: 1056 combines (737 success, 319 failure), 52 skillups (122 to 174)

Again, not as shocking as some of the numbers being reported in the 280-300 skill range, but the mid 100's aren't supposed to be this hard!

[Maevenniia]

more data:

This is going from memory (on the actual number of combines) so it may be a bit off. This was with INT 300+.


I got to 279 prepatch. I think I was averaging 2 or 3 stacks per skillup doing unenchanted platinum and vendor jewels.

Post-patch: was combining echanted velium and ruby (triv 282). Did 160 attempts with no skillup one night (ran low on cash). This was with TC trophy. I didn't measure my failure rate objectively but it was definitely over 5%. I was failing 2 or 3 per 20 on average. Some stacks were 7 failures out of 20 (OUCH).

After reading posts stating geerloks, etc. may be the problem, I did NOT equip trophy. I did approx 60 more attempts to skillup 1 point to 280. Did a further 120 attempts of same recipe with no skillups.

Still stuck at 280. I may try the unenchanted platinum plus the few stacks of dropped jewels this weekend and see what happens.

about 200 or 250 combines of primordial driftwood compound bows yielded 1 skill hit

285 to 286
i solo'd water for a long time, and grouped some to help get a few friends from level 65 to 70
err forgot the stats, 415 int/wis, agi/str/dex i dont remember but it was max at lvl 70 with all the stat AA, shaman buff

Jewelcraft No geerlock or trophy all done in POK 405 wis

Start: 200
End: 250

61 Combines 3 fails to 207
126 Combines 2 fails to 218
61 Combines 2 fails to 223
61 Combines 2 fails to 228
92 Combines 4 fails to 234
92 Combines 4 fails to 239
56 Combines 4 fails to 244
110 Combines 5 fails to 250


659 Combines 26 fails for 50 points (1 skillup per 13.18 attempts)

When I went for 300 baking using MTPs, a I was skilling up at a fairly steady (and by prior baking, typical) 1/25 to 1/30 until I hit 299. I hit 300 somewhere toward the end of the 13th stack.

On the other hand, skilling tailoring from 200, 200-210 was about 1/40 using a variety of gnome cultural and velious furs, 210-212 in less than one stack of ethereal swatches, then 212-217 on 17 othmir cap combines that I did to clear some bank space! I have enough furs to do a large run of Velious combines, once I farm the velium, I'll update.

Tinkering on molten and planar cams has been pretty slow - max of 1 skillup per 2 stacks, but tinkering has always been painful to skill up (247 to where-ever I am now).

All with 390 INT.

At any rate, maybe there's some hint of an indication there that the new formulae ease skillups in the low-200s and make them harder later, I surely see no sign that it's broken.

[Maevenniia]

more data..

After that patch, I started working smithing.

440 STR.

222 starting skill, making mistletoe cutting sickles.

60ish combines - 6 skillups.
125ish combines - 9 skillups.

237 ending skill. Need more emeralds imbued ...

No Smithing mastery, no geerlok equipped. I say Ish because I had enough powders for 66 combines and 132 combines, but I also failed several times on the component creation phase (the making the hilt, pommel, and blade of the sickle) and at a rough guess, they sorta cancelled each other.

The big man (er, Ogre) cleared the path for subjective data, so here goes:

20ish combines of combination Wyvern caps and CSR's - 1pt to tailoring 214
17ish combines of Expert chest and leg symbols - 3pt to tailoring 217
22ish combines of Expert chest and leg symblols - 3pts to tailoring 220

Pretty sure all these were done post 5/11 patch
Ogre Beastlord, Wis 260
Did not use Geerlock. (Yea I know that would affect Wyvern armor since not as close to trive as the Expert symbols, but I dont recall more than a failure or two on those combines.)

Is anyone else seeing such a high skillup rate on DoN armor?

And are we sure that INT and/or Race has no bearing on Skillups? Your know, problems having big fingers and trying to thread those itty bitty needles.

Since the change to skillup patch, I've done the following:

Tailoring

starting at 205, it took the following number of combines to
206 1
207 4
208 13
209 2
210 1
211 6
212 8
213 6
214 16
215 5
216 27
217 4
218 9
219 4
220 3
221 2
222 9 (int increased to 300 after here)
223 28
224 22
225 1
226 7
227 4
228 44
229 41
230 3 (int increased to 315 and tailoring mastery 1 aquired after the first combine here)
231 10
232 9
233 27
234 1
235 10
236 39
237 5
238 1
239 4
240 21 (may be some missing here, as I was making armour for a friend to wear and wasn't very organised)
241 1
242 6
243 3 and counting

I was doing expert's erudite sleeves to 212 (kicking myself now for forgetting ethereal swatches!!), then did some legs/robe combines (triv 222), currently doing expert's chest/legs symbol combines (triv 222) as I get the ingredients. Ran out of drachnid swatches halfway through 216, then did robes of inverse til 222. 9 robes of the ethereal to skill 223, still deciding what to do next as I didn't have many ethereal scribed swatches.

My int until 223 was 295, from 223 was 300.

From 223 I did a stack of rockhopper and three stacks of wyvern masks.

Smithing (Sickles, as erudite cultural is a pain to get ingredients for; F=fail, S=success)

223 don't have full numbers
224 FFFFFFFF
225 FSFFFFF
226 FFFFFSS
227 FFSFSFFFFF
228 FFF (int increased to 315 here) FSFSFFFFSSSFFFS
229 FFFFSSSSFF
230 FSFSFFFFSF
231 SFF
232 SSFSFSFFS
233 SFFFFFSFSFSSSSSFSFSFSFFFSSFSS
234 FFFSSFFSFSSFFFSSSFFSSSFS
235 SS
236 SFS and still going

Will update more as I progress.
- Ilona, now of Quellious server

PS When my druid did tailoring, she averaged about 24. 2 attempts per skillup between 200 and 250, but failed on a lot more combines (solstice robes and velious tailoring mostly, with some rockhopper).

PPS at 236 skill I went 2/4 on Master's legging symbols of growth... luckily I managed to salvage the water on one of the fails! CDD is a pain to get!

[Maevenniia]

more data

i was skilling up JC on an alt chanter, 285 INT, went from 275 to 283 in 160 combines, 8 skillups, avg of 1 per 20 combines (platunum diamond wedding rigs, triv 287)

Sorry dont have the individual breakdown but i went from 245 to 252 (triv. for hynid soufflets) on Saturday in 62 attempts that's 1 per 8.85 attempts. I will take that all the way to 300 if it would let me

I am wondering if they maybe did some coding changes with the patches last week. Before the patches i was getting 1 skill up every 60 to 80 attempts from 220 to 245. Or the RNG gods were 'ing at me.

After doing 400 combines to get JC up from my pre-patch level of 294 to 298 I thought I log my attempts,

299 1 success
300 38 successes, 3 fails I was overjoyed these didnt take 100 per skillup.

21 attempts per skillup.

Tailoring

241 23 successes
242 2 successes
243 22 successes
244 4 successes
245 12 successes
246 29 successes
247 17 successes
248 4 successes
249 5 successes
250 31 successes, 1 fail (1750 woooooooot)
251 12 succes 1 fail
252 18 successes, 1 fail

18.2 attempts per skillup-I like the new below 250 formula.

Wisdom was 275 for all, str, dex, agi,all over 200, geerlok equipped.

Cheremoya
300 Baker, Brewer, Fletcher, Jeweler, Potter, 250 Smith, 252 Tailor

Kaladim Constitutionals. Trivial 335.

Pre-Patch: 100 combines. 12 skillups. (258-270)
Post Patch: 100 combines. 2 skillup. (271-272)

Int/Wis capped at 340, btw. Forgot that.

New numbers, from last night:

Tailoring
Start skill 252
Wisdom over 400
96 combines (holgresh caps)
7 skillups!!!!!! (jump for joy)
I didn't count the failures

Pottery
Start skill 276
117 combines
6 skillups
trivialed out on Tunare idols

Jewelcraft
Start skill 295
112 combines
5 skillups
300 in jewelcraft!

All in all one of the luckiest nights of skillups I've ever had

Fudapuda
Bertox

[Maevenniia]

will add more data later....

[mithridate]

Start date: 5-11-05


Listed as:
number of combines ... number of failures ... skill achieved



Alchemy (335-355 wis, 5% mod, mastery 3)

~400 combines for 293-295

224...30...296-300 (avg. 45 successful / 6 failed combines per skill up)

Recipes used: Concoction V potions
Avg. cost per attempt: 140pp



Blacksmithing (430-440 str, 5% mod, mastery 3)

356...25...290-300 (avg. 32 successful / > 2 failed combines per skill up)

Recipes used: tae ew, black arcylia, old cultural, PoP, OoW, DoN, 191 sickle combines



Fletching (420-450 dex, 5% mod, mastery 1)

157...5...269-282 (avg. 11 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)

Total cost of 269-282: ~26kpp


after the "minimum chance to skill up" patch

32...1..... (PoP and bazu bone bows, girplan feather arrows)



Tailoring (5% mod, mastery 3)

335-355 wis

154...06...255-265 (avg. 14 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)


355 wis, after the "minimum chance to skill up" patch

043...09...266


400+ wis

057...04...267-269
140...05...271-279 (avg. 14 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
173...09...280-289 (avg. 17 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
133...23...290-300 (avg. 12 successful / > 2 failed combines per skill up)


Recipes used: GM trophy, tae ew, othmir, velium hound, holgresh, mastodan, PoP, OoW, DoN cultural, DoD



Research (255-280 int, 5% mod)

185...33...178-199 (avg. 9 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
050...03...200-209 (avg. 5 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
077...07...210-219 (avg. 8 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
078...04...220-229 (avg. 8 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
087...05...230-239 (avg. 9 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)


260-290 int, Arcane Tongues 3

159...15...240-249 (avg. 16 successful / < 2 failed combines per skill up)
095...15...250-259 (avg. 10 successful / < 2 failed combines per skill up)
089...15...260-269 (avg. 9 successful / < 2 failed combines per skill up)



Tinkering (255-280 int, 5% mod)

148...02...250-259 (avg. 15 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
112...05...260-269 (avg. 11 successful / < 1 failed combines per skill up)
235...27...270-279 (avg. 24 successful / < 3 failed combines per skill up)
131...10...280-189 (avg. 13 successful / 1 failed combines per skill up)
337...41...290-300 (avg. 31 successful / < 4 failed combines per skill up)

280-300: 55 GM trophy, 33 PoP, 228 DoN cultural, 193 DoD combines

[Xulan]

Blacksmithing, Mistletoe Cutting Sickle

395 Strength for runs 1 through 5

Run 1: 100 attempts
268 to 276 (8 improves)

Run 2: 100 attempts
276 to 280 (4 improves)

Run 3: 100 attempts
280 to 285 (5 improves)
(note: got 3 of the improves within just 5 attempts total: hit miss hit miss hit)

Run 4: 100 attempts
285 to 289 (4 improves)

Run 5: 100 attempts
289 to 291 (2 improves)

400 strength:

Run 6: 100 attempts
291 to 294 (3 improves)

408 strength:

Run 7: 100 attempts
294 to 296 (2 improves)

415 strength:

Run 8: 100 attempts
296 to 297 (1 improve)

Run 9: 100 attempts
297 to 297 (0 improves)

I'm done, 33k on zippo is a bit much to take =)

[Katrah]

Alchemy is definitely streaky. I've had successes right in a row when skilling up from 285 to 291. However, I also had runs of 129 w/o a skillup and am currently on one for 73 for point 292. When I get more I'll try it again. But perhaps there needs to be code added such that there's a hard limit before just giving the person a skillup? Because, leaving RNG discussions aside, there is a chance however slim to simply never get a skillup. I doubt it'd be that hard to code a counter like that for each tradeskill. Of course, doing a trivial combine would reset that counter so that it wouldn't get abused.

[Oona Wynterbreeze]

I'm still trying to get 296 in JC... currently up to 244 combines and counting and 12 failures and counting if you want to edit my data in your quote.

I unfortunately can't give you a play by play on the items combined for jewelcraft because I'm so desperate for components that I'll combine what I can get ahold of, but I can tell you that post 282 (when strictly vendor bought combines stopped - with the exception of Gem Studded Chains) my combines have been a hodge podge of black sapphire platinum, diamond platinum, blue diamond platinum, fire opal palladium, black sapphire palladium, geode velium and polished quartz velium (with about 30 gem studded chains thrown in when I was pulling my hair out)

I'm level 52 with an INT of 255 and no AA's. I think I stopped using my geerlok in the mid 280's. I was at a skill of 282 when *the* patch hit. And I can list from 262, bear in mind my main issues have been post-280, post-patch.

Combines to get to.....Skill.......Failures

28............................263..........2
8..............................264..........0
8..............................265..........0
52............................266..........0
27............................267..........1
10............................268..........0
15............................269..........1
88............................270..........4
9..............................271..........0
15............................272..........0
3..............................273..........0
19............................274..........3
13............................275..........0
23............................276..........0
1..............................277..........0
30............................278..........1
48............................279..........2
10............................280..........0
91............................281..........7
26............................282..........0
*********PATCH**********
165.......................... 283.........5
1..............................284.........0
9..............................285.........0
17............................ 286.........0
7..............................287.........0
133...........................288........10
36.............................289.........2
5..............................290.........0
187...........................291.........4
117...........................292.........3
3..............................293.........0
256...........................294........11
21.............................295.........2
126 (and counting)....................4 (and counting)

note: Oona's dataset shows 26.2 combines per skillup pre-patch and 68 post-patch.