What to Charge for Combines?

[Drachen Protectorate]

I have several characters with maxed out tradeskills, mastery 3, salvage 2, and nice mod items. So far I have just always done combines for free to anyone who asked, as long as they supplied everything. Now people are bringing me their augment stuff to make minor, lvl 2 and pure augments and its cutting the market on augments I already do sale in bazaar.

What do people charge for non-friends, non-guild members for hitting the combine button?


Drachen Protectorate bored Hydra of Saryrn

[Akishka]

I paid 2k to get a stone cut and 5k for somebody else to make an augment for me (I supplied all the ingredients). Each person had all of the AAs possible for that combine. It was for personal use and not resale though, I know that can make a difference.

[Kazimandias]

I have several characters with maxed out tradeskills, mastery 3, salvage 2, and nice mod items. So far I have just always done combines for free to anyone who asked, as long as they supplied everything. Now people are bringing me their augment stuff to make minor, lvl 2 and pure augments and its cutting the market on augments I already do sale in bazaar.

What do people charge for non-friends, non-guild members for hitting the combine button?


Drachen Protectorate bored Hydra of Saryrn

You should charge enough to justify you continuing to do it. One thing that some very silly types in EQ seem not to understand is that charging is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. The taboo that one should ask for donations, instead of set a price, actually hurts everyone. It reduces the predictability of reward for people casting buffs, making combines, porting, or whatever, and thus reduces the /incentive/ to provide those services.

Despite what public schools teach people, capitalism is the best way to ensure that people will provide things, and that the reward they get for what they provide will be in proportion to its value. It wouldn't be nearly as hard to find KEI in PoK if chanters would set a minimum price that was high enough to make standing around expending their personal time casting feel worthwhile, for example.

Every time you can't find a GM to do a combine, or a buff in PoK, or a port, thank the whole "donation" nonsense.

[Kemie Dreamshadow]

Way back when more folks actually donated for such things as KEI rather than expecting it to be automatically gifted, those with manners offered a standard 10% on my server for tradeskill combines.

Kemie Dreamshadow, Lanys

[Kazimandias]

Way back when more folks actually donated for such things as KEI rather than expecting it to be automatically gifted, those with manners offered a standard 10% on my server for tradeskill combines.

And the source of the problem is contained in the wording...the taboo was that people didn't charge a fee, but would HOPE that "polite" people would "donate". And if someone had enough sense to charge a set rate, a few people would throw a tantrum about it.

The result: People provide such services ever less.

Imagine if people offering services were expected to hope for "donations" in real life. It would be a disaster, for the same reason that it has been in the game.

[Aeght]

And the source of the problem is contained in the wording...the taboo was that people didn't charge a fee, but would HOPE that "polite" people would "donate". And if someone had enough sense to charge a set rate, a few people would throw a tantrum about it.

The result: People provide such services ever less.

Imagine if people offering services were expected to hope for "donations" in real life. It would be a disaster, for the same reason that it has been in the game.

Not entirely certain about that... many charities survive quite nicely on donations... and for that matter, when I choose not to set up as a KEI vendor it is never about plat... I do not even ask for donations in my announcements and still get good plat for the time.

The reason I do not set up like that often is that if I wanted to play vendor I can do that in RL and get paid REAL $ for it. About the only time I vend KEI is when I get sympathetic for those in need and noone else is stepping up to do so.

Similarly, I rarely ask anything for combines or enchantments, as long as the person asking is providing the materials. If they wish to pay me anyway though, I generally accept .

<smiles> This is one of the reasons I am not in the 1750 club, mind... I do not have the 'corporate drive' needed to fund the journey

Aeght

[Verdandi]

My rule of thumb was always to charge one third of the retail value of the item to do the combine. That was enough to discourage those who would abuse it by getting combines and turning around and selling the results (until I caught on) but low enough that it was almost always still worth it to the person.

Nowadays when GMs in any skill are a dime a dozen, I ask them what's they think the combine is worth. It's almost always enough that I don't think they're trying to be cheap, so I almost always accept.

But then, since the masteries and salvage came out, nobody wants my puny GM skill anyway.

[Akishka]

My rule of thumb was always to charge one third of the retail value of the item to do the combine. That was enough to discourage those who would abuse it by getting combines and turning around and selling the results (until I caught on) but low enough that it was almost always still worth it to the person.

That seems like a rule you could stick with well but I did the math for my aug purchase and, in the end, it seems like way too much. A going rate for an aug in the bazaar, with a white gold inlay, is about 135k. A slugworm is 55k. Total cost on the inlay was 12k. The voidflow stone was going for 12k, cut. I also paid 500 pp for the misc items needed in the combine. So, at the 1/3 rule I would have paid 4k for the stone to be cut and then 44.5k to get the augment itself made. This makes the total cost of the augment 128k and I'm assuming all the risk of the fail. I would never do this, personally chosing to pay an extra 7k to guarentee I have an augment at the end.

Now, if you were intending to supply premade augments and didn't want to mess with the market, this would work out fine. However, if you wanted to pick up smaller amounts without assuming any risk of losing pp, it would make more sense to charge less so that people would be encouraged to use your services. I really love the percentage rule though, its just so black and white without room for people to feel like they got cheated in the end. Maybe a smaller percentage? 5%, 10%? Even 20% gives me numbers that I would consider (total of 22k saved over buying premade).

[Fudapuda]

Despite what public schools teach people, capitalism is the best way to ensure that people will provide things, and that the reward they get for what they provide will be in proportion to its value. It wouldn't be nearly as hard to find KEI in PoK if chanters would set a minimum price that was high enough to make standing around expending their personal time casting feel worthwhile, for example.

Sorry, I just have to find it amusing that in one breath you try to endorse Reaganist capitalism, and then immediately turn around and endorse a price-fixing scheme. I think the SEC would call that "Collusion" and you'd find yourself with at least a hefty fine if not jail time. And the jab at public schools is unjustified, though a very popular target for the red-staters out there.

My solution to the thread question is even simpler. I just don't do combines for people I don't know. Been burned too often with either seeing them selling the item for a huge markup soon thereafter, or having them complain and expect some sort of refund if the combine fails, or whatever, its just not worth the grief. I make my own materials for sale, and I make items for my guild and for guildmates. Other than that, sorry, find somebody else...

Fudapuda
Bertox

[Boleslav]

I use 1/3 as well. Here is why. There are three things involved in selling a tradeskilled item. Firstly, you need the components to make the item. Then you need the skill to make the combine. Then you need a buyer.

Well, someone asking for a combine has provided two of the three things. You will provide the third. Thus 1/3. I never charge for a failed combine.

In the case of the augment, you have to consider the actual value you are adding to the augment. What stage of the game are you starting at. In your example, let's say you already have a Mudflow of Minor Haste and are looking to have it made into a Mudflow of Haste.

You would have already spent the pp on the slugworms to get it to be a Mudflow of Minor Haste. Also, when you fail the combine to upgrade it you get your Mudflow of Minor Haste back, being out only the inlay.

This combine does not have a ton of value compared to the value of the finished augment. I would figure the finished augment is worth 15k more than the unfinished, and charge 5k for the combine.

If you come to the table with a Radiant Cut Mudflow Stone and the rest of the components you have a bit of a different story. You could look at the total cost of the augment at about 120k and charge 40k with a straight face.

If you wanted to be a bit more benevolent, you could look at the difference in the finished value of the produce (120k) and the value of the provided components (probably 70k?) and charge one third of that. In this case you would charge about 20k for the combine.

That would be about as low as I would go if I had a decent chance to succeed on the combine. If people can find someone to do it cheaper or for free then they are welcome to not use up my time.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 66th Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Destiny

[gnormy]

I use 1/3 as well. If you wanted to be a bit more benevolent, you could look at the difference in the finished value of the produce (120k) and the value of the provided components (probably 70k?) and charge one third of that. In this case you would charge about 20k for the combine.

That would be about as low as I would go if I had a decent chance to succeed on the combine. If people can find someone to do it cheaper or for free then they are welcome to not use up my time.

Boleslav Forgehammer

You give a very mixed message. Are you charging on the value of the item combine or on the value of your time.

In response to the original post - i'm amazed that someone who has GM'd skills doesnt have a pricing system yet.

And as far as AA's go - until there's some way to PROVE that the person has them - I wouldnt pay extra.

[Lothay]

This topic could rapidly devolve. Please keep snide comments on political affliation, education status, and the general intellegence of other players OUT of this discussion. Both Kazimandias & Fudapuda, you got your digs in, now let it go.

Any further such slights will result in the posts in question being removed, and or warnings being issued. This site is commited to discussion of trade-skills in EQ, not real-world economic theory, political affiliation or the points where they coincide.

Consider this my "not too gentle" warning to keep it on topic.

[Tillinghast]

My method for deciding what to charge is fairly complex.

Polite, entertaining requests = 1/2 price or free
Rude requests, demands, people shoving money at me = priceless

Combines that can help me level up = no charge
Combines solely to help others make money (in group and going well) = free
Combines solely to help others make money (in group and doing badly because of the other person) = Do all combines keep all materials until the end of the group, sell and split with the group.
Combines that get smelly stuff on my hands = hey, get real!

Tillinghast
Vendor Mule
All-a-round reasonable good guy...until you tick me off!

[Thunderheart]

One way you can prove you have the mastery and salvage is a verified magelo profile.

I have posted on Inny.com and here that I do combines if you provide the items, and I cannot remember the last time someone has asked me to do a combine for them. /shrug

[Itek]

*sigh*

Most people don't understand negotiation. To most "negotiation" of price is the standard "haggling."

Example:

Alex wants to sell an orange. He wants $3 for the orange. (Example deliberately outrageous, hyperbole, dictionary.com)

Robert wants to buy an orange. He's got $4 in his wallet.

Alex: /auc WTS -orange- for $5.
Robert: Hmm... well I've seen -orange- sell for $1
Alex: go buy that one then, mine is $5.
Robert: I could pay double because I'm in a hurry. $2.
Alex: I paid $2 for the crate the -orange- came in!! $4.50
Robert: $4.50 you're crazy!! I'm not paying 4 times the going price.
Alex: /auc WTS -orange- for $5.
Robert: Ok, $2.50

I think we can all see where this is going....

Ever see a car commercial offering "Zero precent financing" ?? Wonder how come they are taking a few thousand dollar LOSS by droping the 5% finance rate?

HINT: They aren't.

In true directed negotiation people state their needs and wants clearly. On both sides. Then they agree one what truly are NEEDS and what are actually WANTS, both sides agree to meet each other's NEEDS and then work toward a fair settlement so that both sides get as many WANTS as praticable.

But in answer to the question there are a couple of possible answers...

1) Don't. (do not do combines for strangers, sell the end results yourself) [which will mean buy their components, sell them the results, you eat the cost of failures]

2) 80% of what your competition charges. (this can be somewhat hard to determine and generally results in huge price wars)

3) Some flat percentage of the "value" of the final result. (this requires that you know the "value" of the final result, which can be to say the least fluid)

4) A standard "fee" i.e. "I charge 1k plat for a combine, no matter what it is."

5) Talk it over with the buyer. (see directed negotiation)

Itek: Howdy, do you happen to be a tailor who can do etheral silk swatches?
Halfling: Yes, how did you know.
Itek: Halfling druid from the second_uber_guid it was a safe bet.
Itek: I have all the materials and I'm standing next to the loom. Can I pay you 100 plat for 6 swatch attempts? I only need 3 so you can keep any extra successes.

(Notice, I offered plat AND left overs. I explained I knew what was required and wanted to make it easy for them. And I outlined my needs, the 3 swatches.)

Halfling: ROFL, those sell for 150 plat in the bazaar.
Itek: Yeah, but I don't want to pay that, since I have all the components. I could pay 450 plat for 3 swatches, but I'd rather pay you 100 plat for 6 combines, and you can keep the 4th, 5th and 6th successes. Which you could try to bazaar.
Halfling: Hmmm.... still that's a little low.
Itek: Well I could pay 200 plat, or I'd have to find someone else.

(Notice, no one really understands "directed negoatiation" so most people will require some old-school "haggling" in a negoatiation.)

Halfling: Ok, be there in a sec.
Itek: Cool, need KEI when you arrive?
Halfling: KEI? Sweet, that would be nice.

Then as a bonus after he did the combines I did this...

Itek: /shout MGB of 70% extended KEI at main bank in 5 minutes. Courtesy of Halfling of second_uber_guild.

He seemed quite pleased.

There's an old saying "ask 10 ministers to tell you what God is and you'll get 12 answers." I figure the same goes when asking tradeskillers what to charge for their efforts.