Drop rates for aug items

[Sowfor]

Just wondering what others think about the following:

Problem:
Drop rate for the following are ridiculous...
Slugworms
Trean Files
Discordant Scoriae
Dust of Discord

The trivials to make augments are high enough that upping the drop rate on these wont flood the market with augs, although it may bring the price of single augs down to a more affordable price.

People charging 50k for slugworms, 70k for Discordant Scoriae just shows how rare a drop this is.

In my levelling from 66-69 (almost 70) of which 95% of that levelling has been done in OoW I havn't seen a single one of the above actually drop.

If sony are trying to put something useful into Alchemy/Poison making at least make it so we have a chance of being able to do a combine.

Solution:
Up the drop rates or if upping the drop rate is out of the question how about a merchant that has x amount for sale that needs to be 'refilled' via a quest like the ore merchants. This would help to take out some of the pp from the game.

[Lushissx]

/agree

I agree with you! I have leveled from 66-69 exclusively in OOW zones and have seen 1 Trean fly and nothing else drop. Prices on povar are 60-70k for scoriae and 50k for slugworms. I think either solution you posed would be acceptable.

[Boleslav]

These are supposed to be uncommon items. What would be the point if dropped like Magentic Armor pieces. The same goes for Lightning Cores.

I would dearly love to have these things, but the low entry rate is probably justified for something that creates such a powerful, tradeable product.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 66th Campaign
E'ci - Sacred Destiny

[Fudapuda]

I certainly hope SOE keeps these items fairly rare, but "rare" is a relative term.

In well over 100 hours doing exp in WoS and PG, I've seen: 1 trean flies, 0 slugworms, 2 dust of discord, 0 discordant scoriea drop.

That's a bit of overkill on the "rare", IMO.

Fudapuda
Bertox

[AbsorEQ]

...
People charging 50k for slugworms, 70k for Discordant Scoriae just shows how rare a drop this is.
...

I am definitely keeping my eye (only one to spare) on this situation.

However, the high prices indicate two things, not just one.

They do indeed indicate that the items are rare.
They also indicate that the items are considered valuable.

The nice thing about this part of the EQ economy (the part where the items are tradeable and there are people that can use those items to make something that is also tradeable) is that there is a market economy. If people were not willing to pay 50 to 70k for those items (and the higher prices for the finished items), the prices would go down due to lack of demand.

This doesn't mean that we won't change the drop rates, but from experience I know that prices go down and availability goes up as time passes and people advance through an expansion.

Hence the promise that I'll keep my eye on it.

...
In well over 100 hours doing exp in WoS and PG, I've seen: 1 trean flies, 0 slugworms, 2 dust of discord, 0 discordant scoriea drop.
...

Was this solo? About how many NPCs were you defeating in an hour? Are you including items gained by your whole group or just those you got? Were you fighting the higher or lower level NPCs in those zones?

Unfortunately people tend to exagerate (not saying you are, just that people do) and they rarely include all the data I'd need to really understand how fast these things are dropping. I have data about how often they "can" drop, but I also know how the game works and that those numbers don't mean too much. People might tend to avoid the NPC type that drops a certain item or they might not have advanced far enough as a whole to fight the NPC that drops a certain item. So real reports from players are very helpful. All I ask is that you avoid the common errors of exageration and data holes.

Thanks for the information.

A

[Twistagain]

Hey, Absor. I don't know how much spoiler information that anyone wants or that you are willing to provide, but...

It seems at the moment that these drops are expansion-wide randoms, and that higher level mobs have a higher chance of dropping them. I, for one, would like to know if this IS the case, or whether it just seems that way.

If that is information that you would not want to give out, I would sort of understand that...but the data that's been posted is very much pointing in that direction and it makes it very difficult for us to focus our efforts on the mobs that should drop them if it looks like that is all mobs.

[TestTrader]

In 150 hours of fighting in OOW zones, my group, that consists of the same members every night, has received the following:

(3) Slugworms
(5) Trean Flies
(2) Discordant Scorniae
(3) Dust of Discord

We kill roughly 60-80 npcs per hour, so that is roughly 9000-12000 oow npcs.

Further, this means that, from my data:

Slugworms are a 1 in 3000-4000 drop
Trean Flies are a 1 in 1800-2400 drop
Discordant Scorniae are a 1 in 4500-6000 drop
Dust of Discord are a 1 in 3000-4000 drop

I would like to add some observational information you might find useful.

These items do not drop in Muramite Proving Grounds or Riftseeker's Sactum at all. I have 6 lightning cores, 2 pyrilen flames and 36 icy gelidran hides from these places, I have spend me fair share of time there - either it doesn't drop at all, it is extremely rare, or it only drops in an isolated area and I never found it (see below).

These items do drop in Ruined City of Dranik, Nobles Causeway, and Wall of Slaugher (only seen off the Discordlings near MPG).

I have noticed that if an npc in a certain isolated area drops an item, they will eventually drop it again. Therefore if you kill 6-10 hours somewhere and you don't get any of these items, it is highly unlikely you will ever see that item there. On the other hand, if you do get an item at a certain spot, if you keep killing stuff there it will eventually drop again in 2-10 hours.

I would like to put the time I have spent into prospective.

In the time I have spent in RCoD, I have gotten 5 of the zone rare drop earring, 2 of the ring, and 3 of the tomb.

In the time I have spend in WoS, I have gotten 3 of the zone rare drop mask, and one of the necklace.

In the time I have spend in MPG, I have gotten 1 mask, 1 ring, and 2 spellsheen prisms.

In the time I have spent in RS, I have gotten 3 masks (and no earrings, grumbles).

In all of that time, 6 people have barely found enough stuff to take 2 CHANCES at making one high end augment. In all likelihood if we dared even try to hit combine we would probably get 1 success if lucky. It doesn't make sense for us to make a 65 focused augment.

In this time we have gotten 5 arguably difficult levels, and probably another 100+ aa. We have farmed every item we could want from most of these zones, and all the spell 66-68 spell runes we needed to outfit 8 characters. I certainly don't mind farming or xping, but I would really like a few of these augments before my character has purchased every aa ability in the game from trying to farm these components.

Thank you for listening.

[Sowfor]

Thanks Testtrader.. thats really good info.. Going to start collecting data from tonight too.

150 hours in a full group for those drops... times it by 6 as everyone in the group will want one.. so a chance at 1-2 augs for each person will take roughly 900 hours

900 hours at say 5 hours a day (6pm - 11pm seems to be a lot of peoples play hours) = 180 play days

Say you play 4 days a week thats 45 weeks

Even if you play for 7 days a week 6 hours a day thats 21 weeks.. and thats hoping that you're with the same group of people that allow people to take turns in the looting.

I was under the impression that this was in part a way to make alchemy and poison making a useful skill, but being able to make an aug once a year doesn't really do that.

[Boleslav]

Nice post Test Trader!

If your experiences are the norm for those drop rates then my previous comment (stating that the items were supposed to be rare) is just silly.

Funny how some solid data and a little math can paint a vivid picture of what is going on.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 66th Campaign
E'ci - Sacred Desitny

[Lushissx]

wow

Wow! that is great data Trader. Mine is not so scientific, but I can add some general parameters. I have made all my experience in groups, usually pulling 50 or so mobs per hour. I have fought extensively in Draniks Hollows, Dranik Scar, Nobles Causeway, Walls of Slaughter and Muramite Proving Grounds. The total drops my group as a whole have got are 1 Trean fly from Dranik Hollows. None from any of the other zones at all for my groups.

Absor, thanks for at least looking in to it and responding here. I understand it is supposed to be a precious and rare item, but the drop rate does seem a bit sparse compared to other rare items. And as for the supply in the bazaar, really on povar at least, you rarely see more than 1 Discordant Scoriae for sale, if any.

[Verdandi]

I have been watching the Bazaar closely for slugworms (or slugworm acid) and discordant scoriae (or black gold inlays) since OoW release. I have seen slugworms twice, at 50k apiece. I have yet to see scoriae or black gold inlays. I'm also watching for kyanite, titanite, and tourmaline. I saw tourmaline once, although I forget the price. Somewhere in the 50-100k range, I believe, for a stone I'm likely to lose in the first attempt.

I won't want to invest in the acid component unless I know I'll also be able to inlay the augment. So I've pretty much given up on getting an OoW augment until I can get my paws on a scoriae, which means I've pretty much given up on getting an OoW augment.

Edit: just spotted a discordant scoriae in the Bazaar. 200k.

[Celestya]

There are two scoriae up for sale in the bazaar on the Rathe server at the moment. However we aren't so lucky as to have them at 70k. They are priced at 199k and 200k. There was one earlier this week at 125k. Slugworms are 60k and 66.6k.

Back to vendor searching for me. Hopefully PoK will go down again soon.
Any chance of that lovely little bit of code that will allow the vendors to rotate stock FIFO to be patched in anytime in the near future?

[Sylphan]

An additional consideration is that much of the armor in Omens is without focus effects. I get the impression that we were expected to add focus effects through the augments. But now the augments are exceedingly rare. You got us coming and going.

As a caster I've passed on several 'upgrades' because I'm unwilling to give up my old level 4 focus effects (let alone level 5 focus effects). Something's unbalanced when tradeskill-made armor or level-55-required tradable armor from PoP is more desirable than level-66-required named-drops in Omens.

[GigantuousOfPovar]

Okay my experiences living in WoS

In 100 hours of camping in there for being in a group of 6 people. So this is total what has dropped in that tme period.

2 dust of discord
1 Discordant Scoriae
1 Apatite
1 Citrine
1 Bazu blood
22 lesser muramite runes
3 Greater muramite runes
14 minor muramite runes
6 muramite runes
1 trean flies
0 slugworms

There is a huge difference in the drops for anything to do with either Bazu Armor, or ANY type of stones needed for aug''s or the supplies for the rogues.

Have talked to another person who has camped MPG for hours at a time for last 4 weeks. Only ******1****** Lightning Core has dropped in that zone in 4 weeks in over 140 hours of camping there. Yep I have it but can't do anything with just 1 core LOL.

I run the Tradeskill program for 3 guilds on Povar. I get similiar reports like this from all the OOW zones as I know what we need to complete aug's for those who want the pieces made. These numbers remind me of the "lack of drops for elemental armors" in the planes ie..in 3 weeks 24 chunks of e'cian ice drop but ****0**** shimmering fish gills.

Ie...there ain't much combining going on or sales for stones with affects in bazaar or outside the bazaar. Ones that are for sale are extremely priced at 300k or above. The materials if you can find them are 75k each and up for each piece. The chance on losing the materials even with salvage AA's still isn't worth it. People who bring me these combines I tell them the same thing I use to tell them on elemental combined. Please bring me at least 3 sets of the materials if you want to be assured of a successful combine.

[Groovdog]

Was this solo? About how many NPCs were you defeating in an hour? Are you including items gained by your whole group or just those you got? Were you fighting the higher or lower level NPCs in those zones?

Unfortunately people tend to exagerate (not saying you are, just that people do) and they rarely include all the data I'd need to really understand how fast these things are dropping. I have data about how often they "can" drop, but I also know how the game works and that those numbers don't mean too much. People might tend to avoid the NPC type that drops a certain item or they might not have advanced far enough as a whole to fight the NPC that drops a certain item. So real reports from players are very helpful. All I ask is that you avoid the common errors of exageration and data holes.

Thanks for the information.

A

Ok my experience is probably relevant to this point. I 6box. I get ALL the drops 100% of the time. I never solo, I never less than 4box.

In my move from 65-68/69 (varies by which char) and over 75+AA (on average) I have seen 1 slugworm, 1 discordant scoriae (back to back with the slug off of the same PH in back to back spawns of all things), 4 dust of discords, 5 treans, 5 rare gems (3 citrines, 1 tourm, 1 howlite), and about 8-10 common "flow" stones. By comparison I have netted in excess of 75 runes (my 6box needed 67 66-68 alone and I have bought/sold/gifted as well) and likely 150 named "drops" of all different types from level 40ish named to level 71 named. And much of the above was done prior to what appears to be a single or series of "adjustements" in the drop and/or spawn rates of named PH and various trash.

I estimate that the above represents about 170+ hrs playtime with 1/3 of it in DH instances (split 50/50 between 66- and 68+ versions with all the 66 in fire pit and all the 68+ in murk), 1/4 of it in RCoD instances (mostly sewers 68 instances and most off of stone/noc model based instance), and 1/3 in RCoD proper farming stone, ukun, kyv, blue/red dragorn, and occasional other models. I have spent significant time in DS killing greens (put a ds on my ranger and let 6-10 die on me at a time). I have spent some time in NC but not much (maybe 3-4 hrs). I have spent some time in WoS but not enough worth mentioning outside of raids. I have limited experience in BF (other than passing through and killing the occasional named.

I have a pretty good idea what the drop table likely looks like based on my experience and having bought stuff farmed from others. The following bazaar info is also relevant : Slugs go for 75k on my server, Discord Scor go for 125k, (in both cases they dont stay for sale for more than 12 hrs if priced at this point), Treans are 10-15k (same with dust), common stones range from 9-20k uncut, 20-60k radiant cut, and the only augs that have been completed (radiant with discord effect on them) have sold for 450-600k (only seen 5 up for sale since OoW started). You can validate this stuff at eqecon.com btw.

Based on this experience with both drops and bazaar (and possessing two Grimeled crafters and a capped alchy, i.e. 200/250 adjusted in every skill but poision), I would tell you that the drop rates are fine on just about everything BUT discordant scoriae, possibly slugworms, and maybe certain rare stone drops. I realize these are the best (and therefore rarest items) but they also have obscene trivials that even with the new AAs (which ROCK by the way) are very risky. I was almost shaking when I did the combine on my tourmaline to get it to radiant. I could have sold it uncut for 200k!

Frankly no one is gonna do the lower or mid level stones for foci, only for skills. Since gamers who care about stuff like this (and can afford the cost of this stuff) are min/maxers this poor drop rate/availability at any price is SEVERELY impacting the usefullness of these wonderful additions. Given that the only way non Qvic+ flagged characters (or in some cases Time geared) can get these combat effects/foci (with the exception of the occasional GoD/OoW aug drop or a stat gimped, i.e. especially AC, attuneable drop from places like WoS) is via these augs, I would suggest that the rate of at least the rare stones and especially the scoriae be relooked.

Once again just MY $0.02.

GD

And oh btw the way my standard kill-rate cycle in the content aforementioned is about a mob a every 45 secs - 1 minute factoring in pull time, rebuffs, etc. (I have a tendency to overpull even in OoW cause my chanter can take a hit and my puller is a ranger). The above playtime estimates dont include CR, bazaar, travel time, etc, just pure grind time.