Tieing Tradeskills to Combat Levels

[Littlecrow]

Why is tradeskill advancement above 200 not possible until a character in game has made Level 51 and must then use AA points to advance a tradeskill? I would like to send the appropiate award to the programmer that worked that one out. I play this game to tradeskill not be a combat veteran. I can buy the required items to tradeskill in the Bazaar or trade completed items for material for combines. I dont need to level to 51 to be a good tradeperson in any skill. How do others feel about this?

[Moraganth]

I have always agreed tradeskills should not require aa's, and should be unrelated to anythign but skill in whatever tradeskill you're using.

[Cerpicio]

You can get one TS above 200 without any AA. But EQ wasn't designed as a TS game. I think they want to limit the ability to create a low-level charater and max out all TSs. Frankly, I'm a little miffed that someone can create a low-level gnome and max tinkering. I'd love to have a lvl 16 or 20 shaman and max out alchemy.

But more to your question, EQ wasn't designed as a TS game. The AAs came frist and were limited to 51+, then they added NTCM AAs. I don't think they thought much about pre-51 characters at the time, but AAs were an established ability.

Level 51 shouldn't be too hard to get; it's the mid-50s where things slow down. But then, yeah, you need a lot of XP to get the AAs.

Personally I don't have a problem with it. I'm just glad they allowed us the option to get more TSs over 200.


-- C.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

The ability to go over 200 was a new feature. At the time, they gave it "free" to everyone, with the limitation that you could only go over 200 in one. The climate of EQ has changed somewhat since then - now relatively few new character advancement features are given "free", instead you have to do something to "earn" them, and the most common method at this point for "earning" character features is AA. I doubt it was made an AA ability specifically to limit tradeskill advancement for the 50- crowd, it was just made an AA since that was the convient way for the character to "earn" it.

[Nolrog]

Would have been neat, though, if they put in some kind of pretty difficult quest for each of the trades (a quest that involved that specific trade of course), that you had to do before you could raise the skill over 200.

[sirwmholder]

OMG, you mean have a meaningful quest in EverQuest? I'm not sure the Devs would go for that

[Verdandi]

But more to your question, EQ wasn't designed as a TS game. The AAs came frist and were limited to 51+, then they added NTCM AAs. I don't think they thought much about pre-51 characters at the time, but AAs were an established ability.

It's true that tradeskills have always just been one facet of EQ, but I strongly disagree with the implication that they were unimportant compared to exping (on which AAs are based). In the first couple years of EQ, back before most skills even had recipes trivial over 200, the vast majority of recipes used ingredients off of vendors and low level mobs. The only limitations were the time to farm ingredients and the money to buy off vendors.

I had effectively maxxed all of my skills before they could even get to 200 and long before we had AAs, NTCM or otherwise. (Except alchemy, of course.) This is how the game worked for several years. Personally, I found it immensely refreshing to have something I could do that allowed me to excel at any level. It was not until after Luclin that experience had anything to do with tradeskills, except for some access to ingredients.

And if I may digress...when EQ was created and first implemented, it was NOT intended to revolve around exp grinding. I distinctly recall reading missives from the devs way back when, on the old Flameplay boards and the like, explaining that (paraphrased from old memories) EQ was intended as a game where your character would live and adventure and explore, and that exp would just be one element of progression along with improvements to your skills, changing factions, etc. Exp was something that ideally would simply happen while you were in the course of challenging yourself, playing your chosen role, and having fun with friends.

The shift to centering all elements of character improvement around exp is a more recent development. The concept that you have to be level 51 in order to compete with other 51+ tradeskillers is a radical change from the function of tradeskills in EQ before NTCM, and particularly before the tradeskill masteries. Whether or not this is a good or inevitable thing is not the point. That particular issue would doom this thread to PSR eventually. My point is that historically speaking, the precedent is for tradeskills to be equally available to all. Not necessarily all ingredients, but the skill itself. And while the masteries may not be the same as skill per se, they have the same effect on marketability and value as higher skill does.

[Sylphan]

EQ has changed. So much that it's a travesty that it still has the same name. EQ of 2000 is not the same game as EQ of 2004. There's remarkably little room left in today's game for people who aren't in a raiding guild. Tradeskills are just one of many playstyles that have suffered because of the new 'raiding' vision.

[Nolrog]

I'm sorry. I don't agree with that sentiment at all. There is so much to do for everyone. Especially with the new expansion, that brings TSing back into the game in an awesome way.

[puttermouse]

biting tongue... otherwise it would be a quick trip to the scream room

[Zarath]

I'm sorry. I don't agree with that sentiment at all. There is so much to do for everyone. Especially with the new expansion, that brings TSing back into the game in an awesome way.

I couldn't disagree more. What, exactly, brings tradeskilling back alive about 10k augments that require 4 people with max tradeskills AND the AA's because of the high trivial? What about the tradeskills that have recieved nothing ( or essentially nothing. Hello icecream!) this expansion? What about the people with dedicated tradeskill alts?

My family has 3 accounts, grandmasters in almost everything- and the ones we dont have we are a few points away from. We've been playing since before Kunark, and I can honestly say that not everyone even wants to level. Of them all, I am the only high level raider- we're currently in Time- and I can only do so much to supply tradeskill components. Even when I can get them, I can only get them for recipes that actually exist. And then, we can pray that the combine works and all that hard work is not lost because of the very high trivial and almost need for these new AA's just to function. I can't get them AA's. There have been so many empty Sony promises, where will they end? Last I heard they realized that most characters were not 65, so why do they ignore most of the playerbase?

You know, with Blizzard moving tradeskills from exp to money based, WoW is looking better and better for a Crafter such as myself. Sony really needs to take a good hard look at tradeskills- an area a large amount of people enjoy. With Sony's current actions, they are pushing more and more people away. Perhaps you can correspond that, huh? The turn towards requiring exp for tradeskills is one of the worst ideas ever.

And I am a Mage, believe me when I say I know bad Sony ideas.

[Cubwynn]

I couldn't disagree more. What, exactly, brings tradeskilling back alive about 10k augments that require 4 people with max tradeskills AND the AA's because of the high trivial? What about the tradeskills that have recieved nothing ( or essentially nothing. Hello icecream!) this expansion? What about the people with dedicated tradeskill alts?

You forgot to mention that the drops are all rares from level 60+ mobs in raiding zones.

[Nolrog]

I thought they were dropping in Dranik's Scar as well. The one I got so far, is the skyflow stone, +4 CHA, which dropped for me in the bazaar. Now if I can only find a chanter with skill of 250, trophy, JCM 3 and salvage, maybe I'll have it cut. LOL.

[Serenya]

The biggest gripe I have with the new AAs is the same gripe that I had with AAs required to level more then one tradeskill over 200. And that is the fact that they ARE AAs, and thus tied to leveling. Many tradeskillers LIKE tradeskilling and DONT like leveling. Now, with the originall AAs I was not actually directly impacted by this. When I started playing EQ more then 5 years ago, no tradeskill went over 200 (few could even get to 200 to begin with) and only a few made 'useful' items. Thus, I chose which alt took which tradeskill entirely for roleplay reasons, and even now have little desire to take all tradeskills to 250 on a single alt as I'm extremely unlikely to pursue Aid Grimel. But my 250 baker wouldn't turn down the Mastery and Salvage AAs, pity she's only 11. Of course, my 244 fletcher is 51, so she might actually see 59 some day. Maybe. Though as a ranger she has a ton of other AAs that she really should get first. /sigh