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**Zallarenya** · 12-31-2002, 12:41 PM

I would say that your experience doesn't rule out the RNG. Everyone has good streaks and bad streaks.

I will say, however, that Intellectual Superiority's effect on decreasing fizzle rate is questionable. Most casters rarely fizzle to begin with (rangers seem to fizzle a lot - I haven't really cast IS on them, come to think of it), so it's hard to tell if any improvement is made with IS on.

On personal experience, IS seems to increase fizzle rate. A few of my friends say the same thing. One small test I did (not a large enough sample to say for certain) suggested that IS increased my fizzles. I was AEing orcs with a druid in Crystal Caverns for velium. The druid usually pulled twice before he nuked, so I was left standing there casting my stuns every time the gems refreshed while he gathered up orcs. On on particular pull, I fizzled a couple of times, and I got a little annoyed since fizzling can equate to death by green cons

So, I buffed myself with IS for the next pulls. I almost died the next pull because I fizzled around 20 times (I logged it and tallied them up, but was a long time ago and I don't have the numbers anymore)- luckily the druid was able to cast heals while he was pulling because he was directly above me a few times in the dungeon.

Rather than sacrificing myself in the name of experimentation, I clicked IS off and haven't run further tests

So -- if IS is broken in regards to fizzle rate, maybe it does affect tradeskills. Wouldn't be the first thing to not work as intended

**Taraddar** · 12-31-2002, 02:16 PM

I haven't seen any good tests on IS for skill ups but it definitely does effect fizzle rate or at least should. The easiest way to see that is to fight Thought Horror overfiend. He has an ae that is neg 40? of the same nature that IS adds. Get that ae on you and you fizzle horridly.

**Angelsyn** · 12-31-2002, 04:48 PM

According to some tests done some time back, IS helps your skill-up rate fairly noticably.

I know that the one time I remembered to get it, I got both a very good success rate and excellent skill-up rate with my Smithing.

**Xxtayce** · 12-31-2002, 05:07 PM

Was doing my pottery skillups in Neriak. Shortly after writing the post, I got dragged away to kill an epic spawn, relogged a few times and then returned to pottery afterwards. (Assumably resetting RNG as best as possible *shrug*). I got 185-188 in 7 combines, no skillups for 30 combines (188 is the devil number of tradeskills, i'm convinced, after all the skills I've had stuck there =/), and then 189/190 in the next stack, within fairly close succession.

I'd be interested to see what the results were if anyone else felt like testing it, with as similar conditions as possible.

edit: the next day's trials
191 - 20ish combines
192 - 20ish combines
193 - 20ish combines
194-198 - 17 combines
198-199 - 11 combines

Maybe it is luck. *shrug* But that's still better than the 2-3 stacks per skillup that I had with brewing at around the same skill level.

**Cigarskunk** · 12-31-2002, 05:37 PM

IS *DOES* help tradeskills (IMHO) in that it decrease "fizzles" in failed combines - when my chanter was skilling up on JC I used IS all the time and my failures were only 1 in 30 on average - when I didn't use it I was consistantly 1 in 20 for failures.

When I did MTPs while skilling to 192 (don't ask) with IS I consitantly had 1 in 20 or better (usually 6 success in 100 combines) success while without it was I averaging about 1 in 50 or worse.

As for helping with fizzles when casting - I think it's buggy - I've had days where I didn't have a single fizzle while using it and I've had others where fizzles were consistant till I stopped using it.

My gear has been very consistant for the past 8 levels so it shouldn't be an issue.

**GraemeFaelban** · 07-17-2003, 02:41 PM

The effect that IS is supposed to have is to raise your effective spell casting level by 3. This makes it easier for you to stick a spell on a mob, as level counts for a lot on resisting spells. I had heard the rumors regarding it changing fizzles, and, it might also do that.

As far as it's effect on tradeskills, I'll give it a go, it certainly won't hurt anything to have IS going when I tradeskill.

**Taraddar** · 07-17-2003, 03:28 PM

As has already been posted the easiest way to see what IS does is to look at the only other spell that has that same effect. Thats the thought horror overfiends ae. That ae noticiably increases the fizzle rate on spells. Anyone who has hit by this ae can easily notice it.

I didn't notice any resist change with the THO's ae on me. One would expect that if I was getting resist checks as a level 20 casting on a 60+ mob that it would be nearly impossible land a spell. I have how ever landed a slow on the THO while under the effect of the ae. While I fizzled multiple times before successfully casting the spell I landed the slow the first try once I successfully cast the spell. This to me indicates that it doesn't effect your effective level for resists.

My own experiences with IS seem to indicate that it does reduce fizzle rate but most of the time your rate is already so low it doesn't really matter. Personally I used it on my lvl52? druid who was trying to cast his circle of x resist spells. When you first get those spells they fizzled pretty badly. IS seemed to make a noticable difference in that.

As far as the tradeskilling side of things goes the few times when I did have IS up where some of the worst sessions I had.

No one has presented any numbers that provide any siginificant evidence one way or the other for IS on tradeskills. If you think it helps by all means get it but IMO it's in the same category as having the receipe book on you when you do combines.

**Kantia** · 07-18-2003, 01:44 AM

One would expect that if I was getting resist checks as a level 20 casting on a 60+ mob that it would be nearly impossible land a spell.

My understanding is that it would be more like casting a level 60 spell as a level 20 character, not being resisted like one. You know how when you get a new spell, you fizzle quite a bit for the level you get it, but after you do some more EXP grinding and level up a bit, your fizzle rate goes down?

This used to be particularly noticable when the level 60 cap was first brought in, and level 60 spells were fizzling a lot as they were designed with the old idea of getting more levels and the fizzle rate would sort itself out...

Anyway, that's just my understanding, and I don't really see a way that increasing your effective spell casting level would affect tradeskills, but that doesn't mean I'll dismiss the idea!

**Taraddar** · 07-18-2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Kantia

One would expect that if I was getting resist checks as a level 20 casting on a 60+ mob that it would be nearly impossible land a spell.

My understanding is that it would be more like casting a level 60 spell as a level 20 character, not being resisted like one.

That was exactly my point. The post before mine said that IS made it easier to land spells. My comment was to relate my experience with effect of the THO's ae that doesn't seem to effect resists altho it did noticably effect fizzles.

**Itek** · 07-19-2003, 12:14 PM

Ok, calm down....

Let's ask an enchanter (and tradeskiller) what the actual effects of IntSup are.

1) KEI includes IntSup
2) IntSup does greatly reduce the fizzels of NEWLY LEARNED spells.
3) IntSup makes a NOTICEABLE change in the number of tradeskill SUCCESSES vs FAILURES
4) IntSup does NOT make a noticable increase in skill up rate.

Explainations.

1) KEI includes mana regen (clarity line) mana pool (gift of magic, insight, brilliance line) Wis/Int (brilliance/enlightenment line) and EFFECTIVE CASTER LEVEL (IntSup line)

You get 14 mana a tick, 250 raw mana pool, 25 Wis/Int and a boost of roughly 6 "effective" caster levels for spells.

Remember when you turned level 24 and scribed new spells and then fizzled 20 times in a row? Get IntSup and you suddenly don't fizzle the "new" spells any more than the old ones. Because the difference between the "spell level" and the "caster level" has been increased.

Test it for yourself. Take a spell you JUST got, and cast it without KEI or IntSup. Then cast it with KEI or IntSup. You will soon notice the difference. (Especially if you are under level 60.)

2) Why??

Spell level = 24, Caster level = 24, fizzles = pain in the bottom
Spell level = 24, Caster level = 30, fizzles = not so much

Think of IntSup as "fizzle geerlok"

3) Both my wife and I have brewing trophies. When working on brewing we both had periods where we did not have KEI but used my buffs to get to 255 Int (or Wis for her druid)

On those occasions where we did not have IntSup on the "return" was noticeably lower.

100 combines without IntSup would return roughly 45 successes
100 combines WITH IntSup would return roughly 55 successes

It's about 10 percent more successes than not having it.

4) I -just- got done doing my fletching for the Coldain Shawls... 1 to 169 in three hours. I was getting a LOT more than the expected success rate at times. When working on an item trivial at 202 with a 162-165 skill I was getting closer to 75 percent success than the expectation of 65 percent success.

Is this all within "allowable deviation" statisticially?

Yep.

Is there any earthly reason NOT to get IntSup when getting the Int/Wis buff you are going to get anyway?

Nope.

IntSup... maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't. But it certainly can't hurt.

**Kronepsis** · 07-19-2003, 02:05 PM

Sorry, Intellectual Superiority is NOT included in KEI/Tranquility/VoQ.

**Taraddar** · 07-19-2003, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Itek

Ok, calm down....

Let's ask an enchanter (and tradeskiller) what the actual effects of IntSup are.

1) KEI includes IntSup

Problem is your theory doesn't even make it past the first point.

http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=2570&source=Live

No effective level listed there. I've also had KEI or better up and IS up both at the same time also indicates that.

For reference IS http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=2562&source=Live

And for reference I do have a lvl 59 enchanter so I am speaking from personal experience too.

**Twinsen Reiselied** · 07-19-2003, 03:38 PM

EFFECTIVE CASTER LEVEL (IntSup line)

So without IntSup on, all a low character has to do is level up to get a better chance at success at tradeskill skill ups?

**Itek** · 07-20-2003, 10:49 AM

Hmm.. I -remember- having KEI overwrite IntSup, honest. But I just logged in to test it, and sure enough... KEI isn't on the IntSup line. *sigh* That's what I get for not testing things enough.

However that doesn't change the fact that I -did- use IntSup several times while brewing Mino Hero Brews with both myself and my wife. And -seemed- to get better success rates.

"All a person has to do is level up to get more success."

Never said that. Said that with IntSup I -notice- substantially more successes (not skill ups) than without it.

Please go back and read the last line. The one about it not possibly hurting. What have you got to LOSE by grabbing an IntSup line on the way to the Wis/Int Buff Store?

It's like the old lucky charm of having a tradeskill book in inventory or open when skilling up. No one's proven it works, and I don't believe it helps. But it's pretty sure not to hurt. (And for enchanters working with mana vials or enchanted metal it sure COULD help. Fizzles on Distilled Mana -hurt-!)

So, while I enjoy a quick meal of crow, consider IntSup a lucky charm and leave it at that.

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