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General
These questions were collected from the EQTraders message boards and asked at the tradeskill panels of the 5th anniversary EverQuest Fan Faire, held in Las Vegas on April 1-4, 2004. Additionally, some extra materials and ideas were discussed with the developers at other points in the Fan Faire.
At both panels, the panelists were Alan VanCouvering (Absor), Jason Mash (Maddoc), Bill James (Tanker), and Holly Longdale (I don't know if she has a boards nickname). Absor represented the game designers in general (with an eye to overall balance and game philosophy, from what I could tell); Maddoc served as the tradeskills guru; and Tanker represented the technical side, since he is one of the programmers. Holly was there to answer the few game lore questions that came up.
I want to emphasize something that Absor pointed out early on. ANY of our requests is technically possible, given enough time and programming resources. However, many of our ideas would take too long to implement, or require too much coding, or would hurt the game's balance. So even though a change may appear trivially easy to make, it still has to be carefully considered before it can be implemented. For all of the items I discuss below as probable, understand that the idea still has to be reviewed by the whole design team and approved before it can be done. It's likely some of these will never make it into the game, an it's likely others won't show up for a long time. I've tried to list my impressions of how the panelists responded to each question.
Game mechanics
Tanker provided us with the formula that calculates skill-ups. He flatly stated that he has no clue why the formula was done this way; apparently, it was much simpler when first coded, and the developers then decided they wanted something harder and more complicated so players wouldn't guess it right away. The same formula is used for any skill that can go up, including languages, melee skills, abilities like foraging, and so on.
The formula has two checks. You must pass both checks to get a skill-up.
The first skill check is
C1 = (PS x 10) / (DF x SF)
Where:
C1 is the first check value that results from the calculation.
PS is your primary stat. For smithing, PS is the highest of your STR, WIS, or INT. For fletching, it is highest of your DEX, WIS, or INT. For any other tradeskill, it is the highest of your WIS or INT minus 15. In other words, skills with an alternate stat use the highest of the relevant stats, while those without an alternate stat use the highest of WIS or INT, then subtract 15. Tanker said he was puzzled at why the formula works this way, but it does.
DF is the difficulty factor. The higher this number, the harder it is to get skill-ups. For tradeskills, it can be 2, 3, or 4. Tanker told us that tailoring used to be 4, but was made to be 3 at some point. He didn't tell us the factor for the other tradeskills. One non-tradeskill example Tanker mentioned is Feign Death, which has a difficulty of 28 (this is from memory, so I could have the number off by a bit). He also told us that one skill has a difficulty of over 50, but he didn't name it.
SF is your success factor. On a success, SF is 1. On a fail, SF is 2. In other words, your chance of passing this skill check is reduced in half when you fail.
Once C1 is calculated, the game calculates a random number between 1 and 1000. If that number is less than C1, then you pass this check and proceed to the second skill check. If the number is not less than C1, then you don't get a skill-up.
The second skill check works off your current skill. If your skill is 15 or less, you automatically succeed this check. If your skill is 191 or higher, it uses a value of 190. Otherwise, it uses your actual skill. In other words, your effective skill for this check is always between 15 and 190. The game calculates a random number from 1 to 200. If this random number is greater than your effective skill, you get a skill-up. If this number is less, you do not get the skill-up.
(Side note: I'm developing a spreadsheet that shows your chances for a skill-up at each of the three difficulty levels, given varying primary stats and skill levels.)
My notes: No. Currently, the game is balanced around the extant conversion ratios, including vendor buying and selling prices, drop rates, tradeskill recipes and difficulties, and other factors. While it's technically possible to change the conversion ratios, it would involve too much work to rebalance all the other aspects that go with it.
Maddoc's direct comment: "While it is technically possible to change the conversion ratios, it is not something that is an easy task, as it would require rebalancing and reworking the buy/sellback prices for every item and every recipe that are associated with those items. As such, it's not something that will be considered at this time."
My notes: Maddoc said he would look into marking quest recipes with a secondary use as learnable. He said he could probably mark Enchanted Velium Bits learnable, since it's used for skill-ups. The Vial of Velium Vapors will not be made learnable. Maddoc also asked us to gather any other such recipes we think should be learnable.
Maddoc's direct comment: "This will be evaluated on a case by case basis. There are some quests that quite simply don't need to be made any easier to obtain (Vials of Velium Vapors), however, there may be some that have secondary uses that may be good candidates for flagging. Feel free to compile a complete list and have it given to me (most Mod's can get ahold of me), I'll be happy to take a look at them."
No. This was discussed when the new UI was being designed, and they decided to implement it as it currently stands. Since some recipes yield more than one item when you do the combine, it's possible to try and drop them in your (full) inventory. If you do this with one item at a time, only the one item drops to the ground. If you do this with many items, it's possible that they will ALL fall to the ground. As we know, items on the ground can easily be pinched by other players, and NPC's will occasionally grab items on the ground too. To reduce this risk, the designers consciously chose to allow AutoInventory for only one item.
This seems to be something that can be done. Tanker said it wouldn't be too hard to code, and Maddoc and Absor seemed to like the idea too. They said it's on the list of things to do as time and resources permit..
Requested enhancements
The hidden slot removal was by design, and the hidden slots will not return. However, the developers all seemed to like the idea of rotating stock. Tanker said he could envision the kind of coding required, and it wouldn't be too hard. Absor and Maddoc seemed to think it a good idea too. So, there's hope that this may be implemented some day.
This was discussed briefly; apparently it would take far too much by way of developer resources and time to implement. Tanker seemed much happier with the idea of rotating stock.
My notes: I discussed this issue with Maddoc at some length after one of the panels. Maddoc said that when the newbie quests (and their associated drops) were added, he reviewed the drop rate on spiderling silks to ensure that they still dropped about as often as before the additions. However, he also said he would take a second look at spiderling silk drop rates and adjust them if they are out of whack with what's intended.
Maddoc's direct comment: "Spiderling silk rates weren't modified drastically when those items were added to the tables, though they were changed some, in some areas. The spawn rate of spiderlings overall was increased in those areas as well, to compensate for the smaller chance of drops. There is one exception, that being Everfrost, where the spiderling spawn rates have been reduced to make way for some of the other newbie monsters in the area (goblins and skeletons and bears, oh my!). With this change, it is completely plausible that the drop rates are significantly lower in that zone than intended. I'll take a look at that when I return to the office next week."
The developers said this is very possible. My personal guess is that we can expect this pretty soon, but that's my personal opinion.
Maddoc liked this idea and said it would be very easy to do. He wants us to assemble a list of bags that need tokens. Here is the list I was able to cobble together from ideas at the Fan Faire:
Any other ideas?
Previously promised or discussed
This topic came up repeatedly at the panels. The developers seemed slightly surprised at the perceived rarity of elemental drops, but they agreed that the disparity between plate and chain armors doesn't have a basis in game balance. The drop rates of elemental tradeskill components and the number of tempers needed for each type of armor are on the list of things to review when they have time. Although there seemed to be consensus that this is not as balanced as it could be, they were also clear that this is not an issue with a quick fix.
There is no missing arrow recipe. In fact, Maddoc pointed out that the prisoner flatly states he won't give you the recipe.
Cultural armors
Absor told us that he was flat-out mistaken about this, and Maddoc and Tanker both confirmed that there are no valid combines for the Gukta cultural forge.
It would appear that cultural armors in general may be getting a review soon. All of these, including the nonexistent froglok cultural smithing, are to be reviewed along with other missing cultural lines. One person also asked whether we would get any new cultural armors on a par with Ornate armors, and the reply was that while there are no plans to do so now, it is already on the list of things they would like to do.
Maddoc said he would look into whether this is something they would want to do. He seemed amenable to the idea.
Wishlist
My notes: No. This would take far too much time and effort to code on a general basis, and it would significantly increase the load on the servers. This would only be done for special case combines like the GoD refining recipes.
Maddoc's direct comment: "This was done to a certain extent in Abysmal Sea, and it seems to have worked fairly well. This is something that you may expect on a fairly small scale going forward in new expansions, however, to incoporate it into all the existing recipes is not something that is likely to happen."
Tanker flatly stated that this is unlikely. Again, this would apparently cause too big of a hit on the server, along with sending loads of unnecessary information each time the recipe book is opened.
Tradeskill quests
Maddoc said he would look into this and see if it could be balanced a bit more for melees, either by adding an extra reward for melees to match the Grand Robe or Tunic, or by making the Token of Service tradable. However, since this quest originates with White Wolf / Swords and Sorcery Studios (the publishers of the pen-and-paper EQ RPG), he would have to review any proposed changes with them before they could be implemented. Naturally, this would take some time.
There are definitely plans for future quests, and the rewards are likely to be balanced like the Aid Grimel quest -- that is, there will be an appropriate reward for each of casters and melees, rather than a one-size-fits-all reward like the Solstice and Shawl quests.
General
This is possible. Maddoc seemed to like the idea.
Maddoc said he would look into this poor gnome's predicament and see if anything could be done, when time permitted.
The developers scoffed a bit at how you would lug around a forge, but they conceded that the idea is worth reviewing. They also said that they need to review why these portable tradeskill containers weren't added back in the old days. There may be game balance reasons for not including them in the game. They did mention, though, that IF collapsible containers made it into the game, they might have limitations like less slots than stationary world containers (compare ten-slot looms to eight-slot tailoring kits). Thus, a portable brew barrel (a collapsible still?) may only have four or six slots, instead of ten.
On a related note, they also said they would investigate how feasible it would be to make stationary world containers (like forges and brew barrels) usable by more than one person at once.
The developers said this is most unlikely. It would require too much time and coding effort. They pointed out that the original bazaar took a great deal of work to program, and creating a new buyer mode would be about as large an undertaking.
Maddoc said these could be added pretty easily, but how useful would they be? Leaving them out was by intent.
Maddoc said they would be reviewing the viability of GoD tradeskill items pretty soon. On a related note, the drop rate of GoD tradeskill items should be increased with the next patch. It is currently much rarer than intended.
Maddoc agreed that tailoring could use some bridge recipes between 190 and 240 or so. Any new recipes are likely to come in a new expansion, though. He also said he would review the drop rate of Rockhopper hides; apparently player experiences (as reported at the Fan Faire) are well below what the developers thought it was.
Tradeskill super-trophies
I had an extensive brainstorming discussion with the developers about this, and Maddoc asked me to post what we came up with on the EQTraders boards for commentary. I'll have this posted in detail later on.
These questions were collected from the EQTraders message boards and asked at the tradeskill panels of the 5th anniversary EverQuest Fan Faire, held in Las Vegas on April 1-4, 2004. Additionally, some extra materials and ideas were discussed with the developers at other points in the Fan Faire.
At both panels, the panelists were Alan VanCouvering (Absor), Jason Mash (Maddoc), Bill James (Tanker), and Holly Longdale (I don't know if she has a boards nickname). Absor represented the game designers in general (with an eye to overall balance and game philosophy, from what I could tell); Maddoc served as the tradeskills guru; and Tanker represented the technical side, since he is one of the programmers. Holly was there to answer the few game lore questions that came up.
I want to emphasize something that Absor pointed out early on. ANY of our requests is technically possible, given enough time and programming resources. However, many of our ideas would take too long to implement, or require too much coding, or would hurt the game's balance. So even though a change may appear trivially easy to make, it still has to be carefully considered before it can be implemented. For all of the items I discuss below as probable, understand that the idea still has to be reviewed by the whole design team and approved before it can be done. It's likely some of these will never make it into the game, an it's likely others won't show up for a long time. I've tried to list my impressions of how the panelists responded to each question.
Game mechanics
Is the chance for a skill-up greater for combines with trivials closer to your skill? Is there a greater chance of getting a skill-up with a successful combine than with a failed combine? Is there a cap on the additional chance for skill ups from having INT/WIS >255? >280? >305?
The formula has two checks. You must pass both checks to get a skill-up.
The first skill check is
C1 = (PS x 10) / (DF x SF)
Where:
C1 is the first check value that results from the calculation.
PS is your primary stat. For smithing, PS is the highest of your STR, WIS, or INT. For fletching, it is highest of your DEX, WIS, or INT. For any other tradeskill, it is the highest of your WIS or INT minus 15. In other words, skills with an alternate stat use the highest of the relevant stats, while those without an alternate stat use the highest of WIS or INT, then subtract 15. Tanker said he was puzzled at why the formula works this way, but it does.
DF is the difficulty factor. The higher this number, the harder it is to get skill-ups. For tradeskills, it can be 2, 3, or 4. Tanker told us that tailoring used to be 4, but was made to be 3 at some point. He didn't tell us the factor for the other tradeskills. One non-tradeskill example Tanker mentioned is Feign Death, which has a difficulty of 28 (this is from memory, so I could have the number off by a bit). He also told us that one skill has a difficulty of over 50, but he didn't name it.
SF is your success factor. On a success, SF is 1. On a fail, SF is 2. In other words, your chance of passing this skill check is reduced in half when you fail.
Once C1 is calculated, the game calculates a random number between 1 and 1000. If that number is less than C1, then you pass this check and proceed to the second skill check. If the number is not less than C1, then you don't get a skill-up.
The second skill check works off your current skill. If your skill is 15 or less, you automatically succeed this check. If your skill is 191 or higher, it uses a value of 190. Otherwise, it uses your actual skill. In other words, your effective skill for this check is always between 15 and 190. The game calculates a random number from 1 to 200. If this random number is greater than your effective skill, you get a skill-up. If this number is less, you do not get the skill-up.
(Side note: I'm developing a spreadsheet that shows your chances for a skill-up at each of the three difficulty levels, given varying primary stats and skill levels.)
Is it possible to change Block to Large Brick to Small Brick conversions so that they again yield two of the result? This applies to all types of ore, including store-bought Medium and High Quality ore, velium, acrylia, mithril, and others, including enchanted variants.
Maddoc's direct comment: "While it is technically possible to change the conversion ratios, it is not something that is an easy task, as it would require rebalancing and reworking the buy/sellback prices for every item and every recipe that are associated with those items. As such, it's not something that will be considered at this time."
Can there be some exceptions made for the quest recipes not being learnable? (e.g. Enchanted Velium Bits, Vial of Velium Vapors subcombines)
Maddoc's direct comment: "This will be evaluated on a case by case basis. There are some quests that quite simply don't need to be made any easier to obtain (Vials of Velium Vapors), however, there may be some that have secondary uses that may be good candidates for flagging. Feel free to compile a complete list and have it given to me (most Mod's can get ahold of me), I'll be happy to take a look at them."
Can the AutoInventory button on the new UI be made to put all the items back in your bags (for combines that return tools or have multiple yields)? Alternately, could an "AutoInventory All" button be added?
Could bag tokens be made to show the stats of the bag or link to the bag they can be traded for?
Requested enhancements
Are there any plans to restore the "hidden" slots on vendors? Similarly, are there any alternative ways planned to help tradeskiller find rare items on vendors? For example, it's often been suggested that when selling an item to a "full" vendor, it shouldn't automatically disappear. Rather, the oldest player-sold item would poof and the item being sold would appear at the top of the list. This would allow vendors to keep a "rotating stock" of player-sold items.
Can NPC vendors be set to destroy loot whose only purpose in life is to be sold back to vendors? That is, is it possible to delete items with no quest or tradeskill use (so-called cash drops) from vendor inventories as soon as they are sold?
Given the number of drops added to spiderlings for newbie quests, the effective drop rate of spiderling silk has decreased hugely over the last year or so. Could the drop rate be increased?
Maddoc's direct comment: "Spiderling silk rates weren't modified drastically when those items were added to the tables, though they were changed some, in some areas. The spawn rate of spiderlings overall was increased in those areas as well, to compensate for the smaller chance of drops. There is one exception, that being Everfrost, where the spiderling spawn rates have been reduced to make way for some of the other newbie monsters in the area (goblins and skeletons and bears, oh my!). With this change, it is completely plausible that the drop rates are significantly lower in that zone than intended. I'll take a look at that when I return to the office next week."
You can currently break down Fine Steel weapons to get various quantities of High Quality ore. Could a similar conversion be added to convert Velium weapons to assorted blocks, bricks, and pieces of velium ore?
Could we please get bazaar tokens for non-weight-reducing bags?
- Tailored Quiver
- Fleeting Quiver
- Deluxe Tailoring Kit
- Black Marble Mortar and Pestle
- Any GoD bags (I'm not familiar with these myself)
Any other ideas?
Previously promised or discussed
The disparity in the number of tempers and blocks of ore needed for plate vs. chain armor has long vexed smiths, particularly when dealing with very rare components like elemental smithing. At the last Fan Faire, it was stated you would be reviewing this disparity. Has anything come about on this front? Also, the drop rate for the rare parts of elemental armors are incredibly low, and what few items drop are typically horded by upper-end guilds. Could the drop rate be increased so as to allow a greater flow of the items into the general (non-uber-guild) market?
Does the PoJ prisoner who discusses making an arrow know what he's talking about?
Cultural armors
What happened to Froglok cultural smithing? The cultural forge is in Gukta, and Absor (Alan VanCouvering) posted shortly after LoY came out that Froglok cultural was complete. In fact, he thought it had already gone live. Any news on this front?
Will Half-elves and Vah Shir be receiving any kind of cultural armor? Will frogloks receive LoY-style cultural robes?
Will Barbarians receive unimbued cultural armors, similar to Fine Heraldic for Humans?
Wishlist
Is it possible to make recipes yield different amounts based on the skill of the tradeskiller? e.g., allowing 6 or 7 arrows per combine rather than the normal 5 if your skill is far above the trivial.
Maddoc's direct comment: "This was done to a certain extent in Abysmal Sea, and it seems to have worked fairly well. This is something that you may expect on a fairly small scale going forward in new expansions, however, to incoporate it into all the existing recipes is not something that is likely to happen."
Could we get a "master recipe book" that allows us to see all our learned recipes at once, regardless of tradeskills? This would only apply for items that don't appear in tradeskill containers by default.
Tradeskill quests
For the Grand Robe of the Oracle quest, are there plans to add an item equivalent to the Grand Robe or Tunic for melee classes? Alternately, could the Token of Service be made tradable or MQ'able so as to provide some measure of compensation for melee classes that undertake the quest?
Are there any plans to make Shawl, Oracle Robe, or Solstice earring quests with rewards aimed primarily at melee and hybrid classes? Any there any plans for more Coldain Prayer Shawl / Aid Grimel type quests?
General
Will there ever be recipes (not quests) for new items that require more than one skill over 200 (because of no-drop subcombines)?
Please take Nitram Anizok, and move him to PoT (leaving a non-merchant NPC to trigger the Xanamech event). Or make the items that ONLY he sells stack. Or make him near non-See Invis, KoS mobs.
Are there any plans to add additional collapsible or portable tradeskill containers to the game? Making them tinkered like existing collapsible containers would also be great.
On a related note, they also said they would investigate how feasible it would be to make stationary world containers (like forges and brew barrels) usable by more than one person at once.
Is it possible to create a "bazaar buyer" function that works like the current sellers, but only buys items while your cash holds out?
How come halberds, axes, and scimitars were skipped in the new GoD weapon recipes, after being in all the other smithed weapon sets?
What is the purpose of the GoD tradeskill recipes?
There needs to be some additional path for tailoring to at least low 200s. The drop rate of superb and flawless rockhopper hides is simply too low to make them a viable skill up method.
Tradeskill super-trophies
Are there any plans to add some kind of super trophy for multi-tradeskill GM's?
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