Skill ups faster with Geerlok, without Geerlok, or doesn't it matter?

[Zolina]

I'm just curious whethere I should have my Geerlok equipped or not when trying to get skill-ups. I've been having some bad streaks in pottery with my Geerlok equipped.

[mewkus]

See F.A.Q. at http://mboards.eqtraders.com/upload/...s=&threadid=23

[papyscott]

I had this question too and the FAQ wasn't really convincing.

The FAQ says:

Q: Will using the skill modifying items reduce my chance for getting skill ups?
A: No, your chances of getting a skill up are not affected by your modified skill level.

But unless I missed a dev verifying this statement, I don't think this is very well supported.

Here are a bunch of related questions stated another way...

1. Does the color of the recipe (red/yellow/blue/lt. blue/green) affect the skill up percentage?

-There was a great post ages ago where someone elegantly proved that skillups were much more frequent if you were close to the trivial in skill as opposed to significantly far away. The test was to create two identical level 1 characters (enchanters iirc) and skill up in jewelcraft to 100 (150?). Anyway, the character that skilled using recipes close to their current skill level skilled up to 100 much faster (half the combines?) than the character that used a recipe way above their current skill. Simple, elegant, convincing.

-Now we see with the new UI that the difficulty of the combine is color coded. My guess is that the skill-up percentage relates to the color (perhaps this was verified in another thread?)

2. If the 'color' impacts skill up percentage, is the relevant 'color' the color with or without a skill mod item?

-For example, suppose dark blue is the sweet spot for skill-ups. Suppose my unmodified skill would make the combine dark blue but by adding the geerlok, the combine is light blue. Does adding the geerlok actually REDUCE my chance of a skill-up? Or does the skill-up chance depend on my unmodified skill relative to the trivial of the combine?

-of course if it ONLY depends on success/failure

as hinted at here:

http://mboards.eqtraders.com/upload/...threadid=15614

then I guess the answer to the question is that the Geerlok HELPS skillups in all cases since it helps successes in all cases. This contradicts the current FAQ btw.

-I guess it could be a combination of color modified by success (dark blue success has highest combination of skillup), and then the geerlok effect would be indeterminant...

So is there anything definitive on this topic?!?

Inquiring minds want to know

Papy

[xanrath]

There are two very seperate things going on every time you hit combine.

1) Success vs Failure. This is where the geerlock comes in as it raises your skill level and thereby your chances of success in actualy making the item. Here is where the color makes a difference. It shows the ballpark success ratio.

2) Skill-up. This is totaly unrelated to success or failure to create the item. You can get a skillup on a failure just as easy as on a success. (Some people claim that they get more skill-ups on failures than on success but there is no direct connection, it's just perception)

The fact that both of these things happen at same time confuses some folks but they are totaly different.

[scarbrowed]

Originally posted by xanrath
The fact that both of these things happen at same time confuses some folks but they are totaly different.

While I'm skilled up under this assumption, I've never seen anyone back up this statement with anything concrete. I still don't think we know for sure until the dev's tell us. I'm hoping when those lucky souls who went to Fan Faire got some good notes, because it sounds like the dev's said something.

[papyscott]

Xanrath,

I am familiar with the difference between success/failure and skill-up/no skillup.

However, I am/was convinced by the old evidence that skill-ups are more likely when you are doing combines on items with trivials near to your skill relative to combines with trivials far above your skill.

The test that I referenced -- and similar tests are referenced here:

http://www.mboards.eqtraders.com/upl...&threadid=4991

indicate that identical characters skilling up on the same tradeskill do so at different rates based on what they are combining. The character that combines using near skill trivial items skills up much faster than the person that combines using items with trivials far above their skill.

I thought this was pretty well understood, although it is nice that a dev is seems to have confirmed this here:

http://www.mboards.eqtraders.com/upl...threadid=15569

Now back to the original question regarding how a geerlok interacts with the skill-up probability.

Papy

[Ngreth Thergn]

The short answer is yes, Geerlock will help you with getting skillups.

The long answer is related to http://mboards.eqtraders.com/upload/...hreadid=15614.
Geerloks will help you succede at the combine, because you will be closer to the trivial. When you are closer to the trivial you have a better chance at a combine success.

When you make a combine success you DO have a higher *chance* of getting a skillup, than if that combine is a failure.

So the relationship is indirect... the Geerlok does not DIRECTLY affect your chance at skillup, it indirectly increases your chance at skillup by increasing your chance at a successfull combine.

I have modified the FAQ's

[papyscott]

Ngreth,

No fair linking a thread to answer a question that is linked in the original question

But I agree it seems that success helps with skill-ups. Now my question relates to the 'color' of the combine.

To put in another way (and remove the success factor), suppose you got a success on a darkblue combine and a success on a light-blue combine. Is there any difference in the chance of skill-up? Is the relevant 'color' the modified or unmodified color?


Papy

[Ngreth Thergn]

Originally posted by papyscott


To put in another way (and remove the success factor), suppose you got a success on a darkblue combine and a success on a light-blue combine. Is there any difference in the chance of skill-up? Is the relevant 'color' the modified or unmodified color?


Papy

That was not stated. ALL the was stated was that you have up to 100% greater chance of a skill up on a successful combine than you have for a skill up on a failed combine. From this statement you cannot infer anything about skill ups based on how far away the trivial is.

[Renjah]

This is a grey and very fuzzy topic. In the last fan fair (last weekend) the devs did say you had a slighly better edge at a skill up on a success due to getting 2 "rolls" on a skill up chance. So yes a geerlok can help and sometimes no it won't. To be safe I keep it equipped unless I want to fail (E.G. Solstice Robes).

[ColdHeart]

I wouldn't be surprised if the current skill lvl was the main deciding factor on your chance of a skill up. The higher the skill, the less likely you are of skilling up.

The colour of a combine may not have anything to do with it. So a successful red combine will have the same chance of skill up as a successful green combine (Note, using a geerlok can make items which give skill ups appear green if you are close enough to triv).

But then again a failed red combine may have less chance of skill up as a failed green combine.

This is pure sepculation and is pointless, I know.

Important question is +5% skill vs +10 INT/WIS. When is succeeding a combine better than the extra stat boost. Unless you are lucky enough to have a stat boosting and skill modifying item it would be nice to know when to switch between the two.

[Kaysha Soulsinger]

Regarding the two rolls you are supposedly getting, if we combine it with the order in which the messages happen, I think the two do not happen at the same time, on a combine.

If we have a successful combine + skillup, we see this:

You have become better at some_skill_01! (XXX)
You have fashioned the items together to create something new!

If we have a failed combine + skillup, we see this:

You lacked the skills to fashion these items together.
You have become better at some_skill_01! (XXX)

Looking at it this way, the following seems to be the game logic:

- Determine success/failure on combine
- If success, determine skillup/no_skillup (first skill-up chance)
- If success and skillup, display skillup message
- If success, display success message
- If failure, display failure message
- If failure, determine skillup/no_skillup
- If failure and skillup, display skillup message (second skill-up chance)

As you can see from the logic here, it's either one branch (success) or the other (failure), not both. Because the messages are swapped between them - whether that's intentional or not - you can get something like this:

You lacked the skills to fashion these items together.
You have become better at some_skill_01! (XXX)
You have become better at some_skill_01! (XXX)
You have fashioned the items together to create something new!