Skill ups and Int/Wis

[lasertop]

Hi folks,

I've been doing tradeskills for about 3 years now and have all my skills up to 200 or better, but after the Pop expansion and I hit 65th level I noticed my skill ups where not coming as fast. So I reduced my intel down from 280 to 250, and low and behold the skill ups started happening again. Where talking with a 250 int I average one in 20 pretty consistantly and with a 280 Int I'm lucky to get 1 in 60. Now maybe I'm just very unlucky but I would like to know if anyone else is experienceing this?

[Soulfiend]

Sounds intresting, but I bet thew RNG is playing tricks again.

[lasertop]

A little update

I just did 200 smithing items, 100 with a 280 intel and 100 with a 250 intel.

Result

280 intel = 0 skill ups
250 intel = 4 skill ups

Yeah it may all be the luck of the RNG and sure this isnt a significant sample to know for sure, but I think I'm convinced.

[Tinile]

wow that's nowhere near a representative sample. The RNG is working as it always has. Having lower int/wis will not increase skill ups. You just got lucky or unlucky, whichever you choose.

If you wish to take my small representation, last night I did fletching. I did batches of 40 at a time, due to unstacking silly stuff. Each run of 40 got me 0-1 skill ups. On my last 40 combines, I got my final 5 combines to get to 250. All were done at the same wis of 290. The only difference, was that I complained in the eqtraders channel. So that is all you need to do, complain and voila! Skill ups!

[Calabar]

The way it should work, of course, is the higher your Wis/Int the better your chances for a skill up. But considering the complexity of the program and the fact that higher stat caps were added in after the fact, so to speak, who really knows how it works now. We all know how imperfect the system is, the current fiasco with Nimren Stonecutter is a good example, so anything is possible. However, it would take a really good study of the situation to prove to me that a problem actually exists. Well, that or personal experience. Though I try to look at things logically I’m still a creature prone to emotional reactions. So if it appeared that I was getting better skill ups from the pre PoP wisdom cap I’d likely go with it. In the end I guess all we can really do is go with what feels right.

[andyhre]

grats on 250 fletch!

[Tinile]

Thank you

[Taushar]

I agree about the randomness of skill up and also the hell level. I am doing smithing a stack at a time. During my hell levels, 200-220 or so, it was not uncommon for me to skill up once every 2-3 stacks of combine. This was with wisdom of 330. After I hit 225, I have been averaging 2 points per stack on last two combine sessions. I hope this continues but I know the RNG can be finicky. I am just glad I got 4 points in last 40 combines.

Taushar

[Itek]

Howdy,

General Thread, easier to read

Which is Based on data from This Thread

My conclusion is that 255 is a "soft cap" because any 1-60 toon can get to 255 in int/wis/str/dex (not easy, but it can be done)

My conclusion is that 280 is a "hard cap" because anything beyond that requires AA points (not including NewTaananCraftMastery)

Recently a very good friend of mine in the guild was working on MTP and did a stack of 100 and got no skill up. He complained that since his Wisdom was 315 this made no sense.

I explained...

1) The average is closer to 32 combines per skill up, 40'ish in the 190 - 220 range, and varies wildly from 1 to 200 with 32 being an AVERAGE.

2) That I had a theory of a "soft cap 255 / hard cap 280" for better skill up rates.

Little while later he returns to guild chat.

Learny: "Wow, 287 wisdom, 90 combines, 3 skill points. Looks like you may be right Itek."

Yes, the RNG can be fickle. 3 peoples 1500-2000 attempt runs over a 50 skill point range is going to provide some UGLY data. But there is some evidence pointing to these caps.

1) 255 is a "magic EQ number"
2) 280 is another
3) once they fixed it so they wern't using "unsigned byte"s to hold all character data "roll overs" stopped happening. (meaning: prior to 256+ values having a 255+ int/wis could "overflow" the memory address holding int/wis value and actually make your effective Int/Wis for some calculation VERY low)
4) they soft cap and hard cap a LOT of things. Mana. AC. HP.

Don't get me wrong.... more Int/Wis/Str/Dex is a good thing. And I'm not saying "juggle like a fiend till you hit 255/280 exactly" for the best skill up rates. I'm just saying don't kill yourself looking for one more point of Int/Wis. And that just because you have 355 Wisdom don't expect to walk away with GM tailoring in a week.

[Taushar]

Originally posted by Itek
My conclusion is that 255 is a "soft cap" because any 1-60 toon can get to 255 in int/wis/str/dex (not easy, but it can be done)

My conclusion is that 280 is a "hard cap" because anything beyond that requires AA points (not including NewTaananCraftMastery)

I am not sure if I agree with this at all. First of all, from personal experience of doing many, many combines at different wisdom levels, 200, 255, 280, 300 and 330, I do notice a noticeable differences in combines at 255 and 280 as well as between 280 and 330. I don't have hard data to prove this fact but from my general observation it seems to go much faster with higher wisdom. Another observation is doing JC on 2 difference characters, one with 300 wisdom and one with 255 intelligents, I did notice that at 300 wisdom, on the average, I was getting 1 skill up per 5 less combines. Also, doing brewing on two difference characters, one at 280 wisdom and one at 210 wisdom, I noticed that almost 10 less combines per point on the average for one skill up.

Secondly, I asked the developer this specific question at a fan faire about the stats effect on skill up. What I asked was if stats over 255 has progressively higher skill up and the answer was yes. When I asked if having highest wisdom beyond 255 was better for skill up and he said again yes. Admittedly that he didn't say how much better but I don't think there is a "cap" of any kind. As for you assertion that "wrapping around" of code variables. I think they did a major revamp on the stats when they released PoP so they changed the whole system so that should not apply. My thoughts.

Taushar

[Elinea]

My wisdom is at 355, and according to my magelo, I have a total of 430 wisdom (which means I'd have to take off dang near everything to get it down to 250). After the luck I've been having, I'm more than willing to strip down my gear till I'm at 250 and see if I do better at the combines than I have so far. I will post back and let you know after I've farmed enough junk to do a good stretch of combines (not just 5 at a time, like I've been).

[eniamn]

do the good stretch of combines at 355 first. then you will something definete to compare too.

[lasertop]

Thank you Taushar, Your the first person who has actually answered my orignial question. My only concern was the fact that I was not seeing any skillups with a Intel above 250.

What I'm going to do is this, I need to get brewing from 200 to 250 and doing hero brews I can raise this 40 plus points. Since everything is store bought I will simply do half the combines at 250 and the other half at 280 (actually I may put some AA to raise it further). The question is how many combines will you folks view as signifiacant? 500 combines at each level, 1000, 10000?

[Gaeolas]

It's my belief (based on an admittedly small data sample) higher INT/WIS does help with skillups.

I basically went through all my skillups in the 180-200 range, across all tradeskills, with a wis of 355. My girlfriend is currently doing the same, with a wis of 280. (Most of her skills are now in the 195-200 range, tailoring still to move up). She is using the same basic skill up path I did.

In tracking the skill up rates, I clearly had a better skillup/attempt ratio than she has had.

[solithan]

I myself have always wondered if the higher stats effected skill up and from my general feel yes it does. Will a boost from 180-190 show itself instantly? No, ofcorse not. Do I feel there might be a soft cap implying that the more beyond 250 the less effective? Possibly, hard cap? no.
Anyone that has done tradeskills for a length of time and paid attention knows that the skill ups come very fast at first and slow down over the corse of grandmastery. My personal theory is high scores keep this from slowing down quite so fast but its simply hard to tell because of the random chance.

Here is something fun, go out to a gaming store and pick up a set of dice or if you are a gamer pull them out. Add in a coin. Roll/flip each in order until you have hit the highest number on the die. You will proceed up the dice quickly at first and slowing greatly at the end, but the hardest question is what is the end? Is it the d20 or is it a d30. From the general feel of the boards most tradeskillers talk as if its the d20, wherein if they do 20combines they are likely to get 1 skill up, but usually it doesn't show itself until they have done 40combines and get 2 in a row.

So using this example my take on the higher stats is it keeps you using the smaller die longer.