Combining multiple items may be coming

[Cedir]

Originally posted by Arghargh
One problem that could happen with this is if you have missmatched stacks. Some recipies call for 2 of an item, and another for 3 of the same item. If one stack runs out first, you'd start making a different item.

I agree with your theory on how this might (should?) work. My guess is that if the recipe takes more than one of the same type of stackable, you will probably divide it into two stacks.

[Lilosh]

Originally posted by Cedir
I agree with your theory on how this might (should?) work. My guess is that if the recipe takes more than one of the same type of stackable, you will probably divide it into two stacks.

Exactly.

Treat one stack of anything like One item.

So if you put a stack of Spiderling Silk into the loom, and hit combine, you get a "Does Not combine"

Divide that stack into two stacks of 10, hit combines, and you can make 10 threads.


-Lilosh

[Cedir]

Okay, so now that we are in agreement on how it should work... let's see how FUN the actual implementation will be ...

[Ursawraith]

While I like the idea that this could make things easier on me I also see the pure destructive capabilities these changes could make. I for one hope they do NOT get implemented.

[Suva]

I wouldn't be too worried about the subcombine people though - there will always be lazy and uninformed people out there to purchase pre-combined stuff. Heck, just look at how well Coldain tempers sell in the bazaar - I've even seen them sell for more than the Coldain merchants charge for them.

I've been guilty of that one, although I try and not pay more than the merchant. It was a matter of faction before the shared bank space and has become even easier now with the shared plat space. Usually I could just zone into Thurg and hire someone to buy for me, but at 2 am when i could not sleep and felt the urge to tradeskill...sometimes thurg was empty. Also need faction with the othmir to brew yer own.

[Aiyda]

I think it's a rather horrible idea myself. At this poing my lowest tradeskill is 203 and I have brewing, baking and JC at 250. If they make it so you can do a stack at a time that totally wipes out the hours of effort I put into those skills. Honestly JC is not expensive or wasn't for me. I made money at points by enchanting the stuff first so to make it so people have to to 19 less clicks is just stupid. Plus everyone will be running around with 250 in skills and that will tank the tradeskill market to nothing.

I've heard high level players complain about having to do tradeskills because they want their Aid Grimmel earring however this is not mantatory. You don't have to do tradeskills to play the game it's a choice and with hard work it can pay off. Personally I don't want to see the hard work I've put in already go down the drain so people who are lazy can have the same results I can.

~Aiyda

[Cigarskunk]

Why should I 'waste my time' skilling up Baking to 220, if Joe Schmuck can just get a load of components for MTPs and click away till he gets successes?

Simple - because at 220 baking, you'll be doing a 20-30% success rate on MTPs while the yahoo just clicking till he gets a success is only looking at a 5% success rate at best. Current pricing of MTPs is such that it's cheaper to buy them from those of us who are GM bakers then it is to click till you get lucky.

Doing something like making stacks combinable, even if you have to click combine 20 times but only move things once, will skew things so very very very very very very very much.

How does this skew anything? Yes, it is going to take a little bit of the PITA from some recipes - for example, HMPs could actually become a better skilling recipes then MTPs once the obscene number of subcombines were made more managable.

But in the long run, this really isn't going to negatively impact tradeskillers much - so it's now a little easier to do tradeskills - this is really only going to help those who actually had the patience to do them in the first place - those who didn't have the patience will now end up quitting tradeskills at a 150ish skill level instead of a 100 skill level.

[Morgrist]

I wouldn't mind seeing some recipes given a "batch" option.

For example, snake oil is snake egg + water.

If I could do snake oil (5) + water (5) to get 5 attempts and snake oil (1-5 depending on success) on the cursor, go me.

[Nepper]

Thought on maintaining market on implementation

I'm not sure on the coding of combines, so I don't know that it would be possible but here is a thought:
Link to chance to increase in ability to the actual "combine" botton, and the chance to make to the "# of items in the stack".
Example:
Place 2 stacks of 20 Spiderling Silks in sewing kit and hit combine.
-RNG runs once on combine click first to determin if skill increases
-RNG runs once per item in stack to determine if item is successfull or failed combine
-items may then be either dumped into inventory, or how ever they can manage the items created.

In this way, it keeps the necessity and hard work of becomming a master/grand-master of a skill to the tedious clicks, but rewards those who do it by making triv/near triv combines much easier/faster.

Not sure if this came across clearly, but after the few days of thinking on this, it's the best I could come up with.
Thoughts?

[Nihixul]

I also think this is a bad idea. Tradeskilling is in some sense meant to be tedious. For some recipes, it wouldn't change much, but others it would make much easier (physically). There is already so much convenience in the game (even with tradeskilling). I think we could forgo this one.

ps - Any uber-raider who whines about having to do tradeskills for AG should have their ... nevermind. This isn't the rant section. *halo* *passes out olive branches*

[Ndaara]

I would LOVE this! PLEASE take away some of the tedium!

Honestly I would still probably buy subcombines. I would STILL have to click combine 20 times and for the sheer volume of Celestial Essence I go through, it would still be less costly in terms of carpal tunnel pain to buy the darn things.

While I do see this having a potentially devastating effect on skills.... the Aid Grimel and Shawl quests have already squashed many trade markets. Ornate patterns & molds crashed my BD Cultural market. There will ALWAYS be folks who are going to ruin the market. But this would make it easier on ME and that's a GOOD thing!

[Arghargh]

The main objection here appears to be that this would make power leveling trade skills too easy. There are many ways that could be prevented. Force a delay between clicks of the combine button. You could even make the time delay take longer than single combines. You could make the probability of skill ups much lower, or even make the chance zero if there are any stacked items at all.

If this does reduce the demand for sub-combines, it would probably increase the demand for raw materials (pelts, ores, tea leaves, various meats, etc.). Enchanters would benefit by an increased demand for various types of mana vials.

SOE has already shown an inclination to reduce the overhead in tradeskills with the mass enchant spells. I think it is possible they will make this change. The addition years ago of shift-click and crtl-click to pickup stacks and single items was to a great extent to reduce the effort needed in tradeskills. Making one arrow took something like 49 clicks.

Also keep in mind, SOE needs to keep EQ appealing to the players. Given that most people don't do tradeskills, it may well be in SOE's best interest to make them more appealing to the rest of the player base. If more people do tradeskills, then that is more time they'll spend playing EQ, and paying SOE. If this yields a net increase in playing time, then SOE wins.

Arghargh Grumble, Darkblood
63 Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek

195 Alchemy
200 Baking
250 Blacksmithing
200 Brewing
200 Fishing
200 Fletching
200 Jewelry
200 Pottery
170 Tailoring

[Hippo]

Change is scary, it always has been, it always will be.

I'm scared!

I've put in a goodly part of my play time to get where I am in tradeskilling, not to even mention a great deal of my sanity when it comes to sitting in front of a computer with a mouse in my hand. I, aswell as many others on these boards, am very justifiably scared for what may occur if the change actually comes about. Tradeskills have taken a few knocks and bumps over the years, could this be the one to tumble them. To make them no longer challenging could ruin any market that tradeskill products ever had. We have seen what people will do to raise their skill to a level in which they can get a particular item, if this change comes about, what is to stop Joe Somebody with 5 million pp from GMing all tradeskills in a week?. Not possibly you say? I beg to differ, after that Gimel bastage was bought into the equation, it was not very long at all until the price of components for the 'main stream skill up path' almost doubled in price on bristlebane thus pushing little Jonny at the bottom of the ladder on to his face in the mud.

The only way I can see this as an advantage to existing tradeskillers would be if they made it to be a system such as the late 'no fail if trivial enough' change. Maybe if an item such as leather padding or celestial essences are no fail combines, you could combine a stack at a time. Other than that, I hope this idea gets lost in an office fire at EQ HQ.

[Eleena Transient]

Any new information on this? Was hoping to see it with the last patch, but no.

[Lothay]

First:

Someone at the fan faire mentioned that they were thinking about this. No promises were made.

Second:

Chicken Little is always screaming that the sky is falling. The sky never falls.

The guys at Sony will do what is best for the game in the long haul, so there is no need to panic.