Should elemental bows be nerfed?

[eniamn]

so you dont use elemental armor for stats or ornate for effects? i know ornate isn't quite ele but still.

[Iannyen]

If they weren't intended to be used by people not in those planes, they would be drops, like the bow that drops off of Tallon Zek in Drunder.

IMHO- Bows (planar or not) are the perfect model for what player crafted weapons can and should be. Highly sought after items that are player made. They have minumum levels on them for a reason, just like cultural armor and planar armors do.

I don't think that SOE is catering to ubers in this case. I think that they are catering to the masses who will never see the plane of Fire, but can still use items from it if the player base decides to sell outside. Basically, stop crying, and learn to share.

[eniamn]

can we see some plane of fire firery weapons? it takes longer to get the stuff to make my own fiery weapon than to farm for a comparable weapon. player made weapons are way behind for the most part. tae ewe black acrylia and ele bows are not the most part.

[Dvinn]

I don't think that SOE is catering to ubers in this case. I think that they are catering to the masses who will never see the plane of Fire, but can still use items from it if the player base decides to sell outside. Basically, stop crying, and learn to share.

Ianyenn you are a dip**** if you don't think elementals bows cater to ubers. Ubers are the ones farming the components, making the bows and selling them for ridiculous amounts of money. All this does is make the rich richer and encourage bazaar mongering from the less fortunate.

The bow has become a symbol of the desperate, poorly-played, plat scraping ranger in his eternal quest to be uber. Owning an elemental bow means nothing today, which is why I won't buy one.

If you can't understand what I'm talking about, that's your problem. You probably don't like what I have to say because you're too busy trying to get fithy rich of the same bazaar mongerers saving up for a stonewood. You like to delude yourself into thinking your'e "sharing", when in fact you're just holding them up for as much money as you possibly can.

[Lilosh]

Originally posted by Dvinn
I don't think that SOE is catering to ubers in this case. I think that they are catering to the masses who will never see the plane of Fire, but can still use items from it if the player base decides to sell outside. Basically, stop crying, and learn to share.

Ianyenn you are a dip**** if you don't think elementals bows cater to ubers. Ubers are the ones farming the components, making the bows and selling them for ridiculous amounts of money. All this does is make the rich richer and encourage bazaar mongering from the less fortunate.

No need for insults, mate.

-Lilosh

[Pesco]

The bows were balanced for the zones in which they are obtained... not for the lower teir zones, period. In Teir 4+ they are balanced, in Teir 3- they are overpowered.

There is 2 ways to "fix" the elemental bow issue. Make smithed elemental weapons or nerf the bows in their current state and have some sort of gimp quest or an NPC at the zone ins with a flag check ( non-flagged people cannot do the turnin ) in the elemental planes to turn them back into their current state but no drop.

Now.. I'm honestly not a fan of putting elemental DPS power into the hands of people in the lower teirs. If you want to complain about trivalization now.. I'd hate to see it with everyone having elemental weapons. I personally had no real desire to own an ele bow til I stepped foot inside of the plane under my own power. So I dont think that ele smithed weapons are a good fix unless they do something similar to the quest listed above. Then I'd be all for Elemental Smithed Weapons.

It isnt so much an issue of the "Ubers dont want anyone else to be Uber", but the fact that it is causing balance issues due to broken itemization. Sure it is broken across the board.. but the elemental bows are one of the best examples of it.

And honestly, anyone that thinks it is about Ubers not wanting others to be uber, needs a reality check. Most of the people that speak on the subject of component farming have no idea what goes on behind the closed doors of the elemantal planes and what is involved in getting to that point, none-the-less obtaining the actual components themselves. Stonewoods are really the only "grindable" bows, and even then it makes more sense to do the Vine Ring then try to grind those out. Some things need to be earned, not given, which is what most of the "ubers" out there want everyone else to do. They earned the right to get the components and they allow you to purchase them. It is a service and services dont come free.

[Dvinn]

Pretty good post Pesco but the first sentence of your fourth and fifth paragraph contradict each other :P.

To illustrate the problem with elemental bows, last night my guild killed Avatar or War. There were 2 rangers, me and another person who probably has 1/4 of the days played I have. he declined on War Bow of Rallos Zek (43/45) because he already had a Stonewood (42/37). I looted it, because it's better than my twisted. Before PoP, rangers drooled over AoW's bow, now it's just a piece of junk not even worth being awarded. We're talking about a raid encounter, AoW is still brutal due to his damage output.

Owning an elemental bow means nothing today. They should all be made no drop, or at least give them a significant reduction in stats when sold/traded.

[eniamn]

and the ele pants or even ornate you bought your ranger aren't much better than avatar leg drops? just nerfing bows is short sighted. everything needs rebalanced. to just do a bit of it breaks things.

I looted it, because it's better than my twisted. Before PoP, rangers drooled over AoW's bow, now it's just a piece of junk not even worth being awarded. We're talking about a raid encounter, AoW is still brutal due to his damage output.

we call this mudflation. its everywhere. bronze armor and banded were good. now you get laughed at except by true newbies in cloth and tattered. maybe they've bought leather already. ( true newbies who are polite. make the game more fun when trying to pass on stuff.)

[Dvinn]

we call this mudflation. its everywhere.

How can it be mudflation when its no drop? Do you think blade of carnage gets passed over on loot rolls?

[Qaladar Bragollach]

Nothing wrong with mudflation. Its unavoidable. Whats wrong is to mudflate unevenly and give one class (rangers) a huge mudflation advantage.

Its less of an issue though honestly with some pretty nice point buyable weapons in LDoN (for example 14/19 rogue backstabber that you can put a 2 damage aug in and make it 16/19).

Notice rangers didn't get much in the way of buyable bows from LDoN.

[Pesco]

Actually.. there is a 40/37 bow obtainable via adventure points. Not quite a Stonewood / Featherwood, but it is very good considering the effort required for it.

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

Having gone through 2 guilds to get elemental access, 2nd guild cloapsed after killing TZ in the RZtW script the first time and had to rebuild. So basicly three learning cycles, for that event, 2 for saryn and bert. (I love getting moved fromn a night shift to a day one, /morn euro guild)

I find the Uber attitude to be seriously lame, especially when you think how many of these "Hardcores" are recent recuits that never got beyond AoW before guild hopping. and then the egos grow.


I love the elemental bows, I think they're great, I've not farmed one, I have not sold components for one, that is beyond the point, it is just pure elistism.


Dai

[Dvinn]

There is no 40/37 bow in LDoN.

There is the shadow agent death bow, 37/36 from Butcherblock for 1150 points.

It's a complete waste, the stonewood still blows it away. In the time it takes to get 1150 points, a player can farm plat and play hi-lo and buy a stonewood instead.

[Moraganth]

If the ubers cared that much you wouldn't see any for sale, ever. Nor would you see any components to make them for sale...ever.

Actually, i tend to find my elemental components on vendors... not everyone in uberguilds is smart enough to save all their components.

Ubers are the ones farming the components, making the bows and selling them for ridiculous amounts of money. All this does is make the rich richer and encourage bazaar mongering from the less fortunate.

In this part i agree with you; but, PoP was Verants doing. This happens all the time though, uberguilders do whatever they want.. destroying markets, stealing mobs, eliminating content for others. LDoN was designed specifically to address some of these problems, but it hasn't addressed all of them. However while i agree with you on those points, you need to take a chill pill.

Sure it is broken across the board.. but the elemental bows are one of the best examples of it.

No, the best example is when elemental flagged groups go around killing ALL the raid mobs designed to be done by level 50-55 characters. Of course that only happens EVERY TIME those mobs spawn...

I go back to what i said.. make all PoP items no drop. Level restrict (including abilities, spells, hps, ac) everyone so NO ONE is above level 60 unless they are in a PoP zone... well.. and the ldon raids, which can be geared directly for them.

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

I am sure the same complaint was heard when kunark was out, it is the same power growth between 50/60 as it is now between 60-65. the so called evil ubers were slaughtering the same stuff at level 60 SoL equipment. from the tank/melee side of thing the biggest change IMO, with pop, is already illrelivent in all older zones. Armor Class, it now matters again, no matter how many HP you have in pop a tank with 1250 AC is going to get mauled, where everywhere else 1250 was good, there is no real diffference in mitagation and avoidance between 1300 ac and the 1900+ I can get now, a mob will miss only so much, they do have minimum amount that they can hit for.

The pre 60's game is not what it once was it is so much more easy then it was when I started it is not funny, FG the zone I got 60 in, which was thought of as good XP back then, you have a hard time getting a 55 to go into, the XP is that bad, they do not want to touch it.

There is not much 50-55 content because progression is part of the underlining design of the game. They do not want people sitting fat and happy at some point, the goal is to get people to progress and grow, new levels, new AAs, new spells, new gear is all that, 50-55 is to be a path of growth, not a stop off.

It might be nice to make buggy whips all your life, but most people in the end wanted cars instead, throwing up artificial barriers in EQ would likely have a worse effect for SOE then what went on in the early days of the auto.

Dai