Formed Suspension of Slime VII has a use!!!!

[PacerX]

In the esteemed company of colleagues such as yourselves, this may be a pittance, but this little discovery last night has me well pleased, so I would like to share it.

The background...

Main: 53 Warrior, Baz geared + some DON augs.
Wifey's main: 53 Warrios, same as above.
Boxed: My 61 Druid.

My secondary (this is important...) 42 Shaman, my dedicated tradeskiller. 252ish Alchemy.


The story...

As part of the skillup path for tradeskilling Alchemy, Shamans run into a set of potions in the Suspension of Slime category (Formed, etc...). I made roughly 400 successful combines of Formed Suspension of Slime VII, and did some reading on the effects of this thrown potion.

1) It does very minor damage (maybe 10hp or so).
2) It has a chance to snare the target, but the snare hardly ever lands.
3) It utilizes the throwing skill and is a ranged attack, but with very limited range compared to a bow.

Shamans on the tradeskillers site have been bemoaning the utter futility of this potion since the snare rarely lands. Basically, it is considered useless vendor-fodder after made by most.

Well, seeing as how my warrior's throwing skills were sorely lacking, and the pp return on the potions when sold after making them was relatively minor, I figured that I would use them to get my throwing skill up and call it a day...


The discovery...

Yesterday, I am in my typical group (me, my wife, a 53 Ranger and a 52 Beastlord), when I decide to use the thrown potions for the first time.

Completely ignorant of what would happen, my wife (who does the lion's share of pulling while I main tank) pulls a dark blue mob with her bow. My normal procedure had always been to just run up hit Melee, Slam, Taunt and Bellow, which usually got me aggro.

But this time (as mentioned) I threw the potion. The snare DID NOT stick, but the mob literally bee-lined straight for me.



The Conclusion...

Insta-hate.

Better than Bellow.

Since I don't hit all that hard with a bow, and only rarely get the proc off of the bow (Nightmarewood Compound Bow), plinking with a bow as the mob approaches is now regulated to the second string. Now, as the puller approaches, I throw a Formed Suspension of Slime VII, and pull instant-aggro WITHOUT FAIL.

Tell your Shaman Alchemist friends!!!! The Formed Suspension of Slime VII potions that they thought were a worthless time and plat sink in their tradeskilling progression actually have a use!!! They put the thrower at the top of the hate list on a pull instantly!!!



Forgive my enthusiasm if you already know all this, I am well pleased with this little pearl... I originally wrote this post for the Steel Warrior boards, and have copied it to here to let Shammys everywhere know that they need to supply their main tank with these potions and have them work on their throwing...

Might keep Mr. Mob off ya when you slow him a little too early, and on the main tank, where he belongs...

[Bara]

Very interesting. My main is also a so-so geared "Bazaar-Mart" equiped warrior and has trouble with agro at times. I guess my Shaman will have to get to work on his alchemy finaly... er I think he is still at 50-something skill... ewww! Oh well, guess it is time to bite the bullet...

[PacerX]

Very interesting. My main is also a so-so geared "Bazaar-Mart" equiped warrior and has trouble with agro at times. I guess my Shaman will have to get to work on his alchemy finaly... er I think he is still at 50-something skill... ewww! Oh well, guess it is time to bite the bullet...

What level warrior do you have?

[Bara]

What level warrior do you have?

Level 68 warrior. Usualy, I 2 box my level 68 Cleric with him.

[Gorse]

Completely ignorant of what would happen, my wife (who does the lion's share of pulling while I main tank) pulls a dark blue mob with her bow. My normal procedure had always been to just run up hit Melee, Slam, Taunt and Bellow, which usually got me aggro.

But this time (as mentioned) I threw the potion. The snare DID NOT stick, but the mob literally bee-lined straight for me.



The Conclusion...

Insta-hate.

Better than Bellow.

Since I don't hit all that hard with a bow, and only rarely get the proc off of the bow (Nightmarewood Compound Bow), plinking with a bow as the mob approaches is now regulated to the second string. Now, as the puller approaches, I throw a Formed Suspension of Slime VII, and pull instant-aggro WITHOUT FAIL.

Welcome to agro management 101.


Anyone that pulls and monitors agro knows that pulling with arrows = low agro. In fact, even using a regular arrow with the tank to plink the mob that is incoming (chasing) the puller will gank the agro.


The potion is considered a snare. Snare spells traditionall carry very high agro, and typically only under slows, resists debuffs and AC debuffs. The hate is generated even when the spells are resisted.


So yes, any time you use that potion (pretty much anything) on the incoming (kited) mob you will gank the agro, just using the potion will generate some more. Once the mob goes static (read: no longer being kited) the agro changes a bit and they are less inclined to turn to a new target (especially if their current target is doing damage), so a potion at this point could be useful and generating enough to hold the mob's attention.



Also there are many snares out there and pretty much all of them will block this spell. The blocked spell will mean minimal (possibly no) agro generated. So if your puller is snaring on the pull, and or if someone else snares, the effectiveness of the potions is greatly reduced. But they certainly are another tool.

Gorse

[Ngreth Thergn]

This is getting a partial nerf.

We are not NEGATING the agro caused by these potions, but we are cutting in by 1/4

And to use the potions... use the one within 5 levels of your NPC target and it will stick much better. Does this mean you have to use potions with farmed components at higher levels? Yes it does.

And yes... I have to get the 75 versions in Sorry for the delay on those, I have just been short on time.

[Bara]

Bummer about the partial nerf, but thanks much for the consideration of informing us of it in advance Negreth. Avoids some of the confussion and chatter about things that used to "work" being "broken" all of a sudden. Cuts down somewhat on the heartburn among the players IMHO.

[Gaell Stormracer]

This is getting a partial nerf.

We are not NEGATING the agro caused by these potions, but we are cutting in by 1/4

And to use the potions... use the one within 5 levels of your NPC target and it will stick much better. Does this mean you have to use potions with farmed components at higher levels? Yes it does.

And yes... I have to get the 75 versions in Sorry for the delay on those, I have just been short on time.

It's very discouraging to see the old mantra about "if it inconveniences players, don't expect a fix, but if there's ANY advantage to it, expect an immediate nerf" being proved true yet again.

Ngreth, NO ONE is going to use Powder of Ro or even the level VII-IX drop components for one dose of Ensnaring potion, when it could be used for the high level Damage Shield (great for PLing or for topping up DS on raid mobs), or the Distillate of Immunization X (eg for the Anguish Arch Magus Vangl encounter).

Prior to your revamp, the pure-vendor-bought potion had some use. Now, the level VI potion is of almost no use other than skilling up (prior to reading this post I'd have said it was exactly zero).

If the yield were about 10x higher (10 potions per 1 drop) it MIGHT get some use.

[Ngreth Thergn]

the amount it was reduced to is not a "useless" amount. Just no longer an "extreme" amount (it was a rather large amount of hate)

It will still out aggro the average bow shot, (though if a crit is gotten it might exceed the aggro on the potion) or other "low aggro" method of pulling.

It was actually a number larger than bellow which is realistically not acceptable. It should not be REPLACING a warrior's ability to generate his own hate. BUT... it can still be used to supplement a warrior's hate. If bellow is recycling, or for whatever reason it is unavailable, or the warrior just wants to conserve it, this can still be used to generate hate.

And believe it or not I had players asking me to address the hate on these.

[Catmandew]

the amount it was reduced to is not a "useless" amount. Just no longer an "extreme" amount (it was a rather large amount of hate)

It will still out aggro the average bow shot, (though if a crit is gotten it might exceed the aggro on the potion) or other "low aggro" method of pulling.

It was actually a number larger than bellow which is realistically not acceptable. It should not be REPLACING a warrior's ability to generate his own hate. BUT... it can still be used to supplement a warrior's hate. If bellow is recycling, or for whatever reason it is unavailable, or the warrior just wants to conserve it, this can still be used to generate hate.

And believe it or not I had players asking me to address the hate on these.

I may be wrong, but for a warrior to be able to use a throwing potion to suppliment their other abilities, they would have to move out of melee range into throwing range, which means the mob has somebody else on its damage output. I don't see how this would help suppliment his abilities.

[Ngreth Thergn]

I may be wrong, but for a warrior to be able to use a throwing potion to suppliment their other abilities, they would have to move out of melee range into throwing range, which means the mob has somebody else on its damage output. I don't see how this would help suppliment his abilities.

well. it was "warriors" using this in the first place (I quoted warriors because I am sure other classes were using it)

[Bara]

The only practical scenario I see a warrior regularly using a thrown potion is on the incoming pull. That is a 1-shot occassion. Anyone dumb enough to keep gaining agro from the MT deserves to die... repeatedly.... with no rez.

"Digital Darwinism" if you will.

[Catmandew]

The only practical scenario I see a warrior regularly using a thrown potion is on the incoming pull. That is a 1-shot occassion. Anyone dumb enough to keep gaining agro from the MT deserves to die... repeatedly.... with no rez.

"Digital Darwinism" if you will.

QFT with the addition of fingers pointed at them and they are laughed at.

[Gaell Stormracer]

It was actually a number larger than bellow which is realistically not acceptable. It should not be REPLACING a warrior's ability to generate his own hate.

Fair enough - but what upsets me is that you have ignored the fact that the store-bought version had become worthless UNTIL someone found a(n unintended) use for it.

Could you at least consider making the storebought-only version land on 60+ mobs?

[Ngreth Thergn]

Fair enough - but what upsets me is that you have ignored the fact that the store-bought version had become worthless UNTIL someone found a(n unintended) use for it.

Could you at least consider making the storebought-only version land on 60+ mobs?

I have not ignored it.

I have made sure it works within 5 levels of the level it is intended for and it does.

I am willing to talk to maddoc about it more, but because we were forced to reverse the changes to the resist system that actually would have made this potion work better, we may be stuck.