ARG! Level IX suspension needs Highland Sludge!

[Gaell Stormracer]

Basic Suspension of Slime IX: (Trivial 314, Yield 1)

Gemmed Friable Potion Vial
Sprig of Angurth
Bundle of Bitterwood Twigs x 2
Sprig of Yellow Rheum
Dragonwart
Sample of Filtered Highland Sludge

This really should be changed -- the Highland Sludge is yet another Kod`Taz and later (KEYED!) zones drop -- and it's already in high demand for making a number of GoD spells via Research!

Basic Suspension of Slime IX
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: RANGE AMMO
Skill: Throwing Atk Delay: 40
DMG: 1
Effect: Suspension of Slime (Combat)
Required Level of 55.
WT: 0.8 Range: 70 Size: SMALL
Class: ALL
Race: ALL

Stackable, presumably to 100.

EDIT: I have now checked the VIII potion -- this uses the "Sample of Filtered Taelosian Sludge" -- the variety that drops in the un-keyed zones. This is a bit better, but it's still not going to be much of a skill-up path OR much used with the rarity:

Basic Suspension of Slime VIII: (Trivial 271, Yield 1)

Fine Friable Potion Vial
Sprig of Angurth
Bundle of Bitterwood Twigs x 2
Sprig of Yellow Rheum
Bugbane
Sample of Filtered Taelosian Sludge

Basic Suspension of Slime IX
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: RANGE AMMO
Skill: Throwing Atk Delay: 40
DMG: 1
Effect: Suspension of Slime (Combat)
Required Level of 45.
WT: 0.8 Range: 70 Size: SMALL
Class: ALL
Race: ALL

Stackable, presumably to 100.

[Ngreth Thergn]

So a God era potions, should not use GoD Era components?

[Greeznok]

Not when they are so rare that nobody could afford to use them?

[Mukkul]

So a God era potions, should not use GoD Era components?

The original recipes that came out with GoD didn't require any dropped components. Later on, advanced versions of those recipes were added that used DoN dropped/foraged components.

With dropped component requirements, no one is going to make the new VIII IX or X potions for throwing use. Maybe that's the intent? I really can't see anyone spending an hour in a group farming an old expansion for a component to make one potion that gets used up in 30 seconds on the next mob.

[Gaell Stormracer]

A re-evaluation and an apology to Ngreth...

Actually... having compared the effects on these potions with the older Ensnaring Concoctions, I'm a lot less annoyed than before. The new level VII potion have a higher grade of snare than the highest old potion, and lasts just as long, but without needing the droppables. The NEW VIII/IX snares are more powerful still.

The only caveat is that it APPEARS that the new snare effect is not anywhere as hard to resist as the old... hopefully this can be addressed via a patch.

In the light of all this, I owe Ngreth an apology for the implicit rant above -- this is exactly what I had in mind when I was asking in the thread about the Damage Shield potions, that is to say new potions that at least match what we had before without needing drops, BUT includes versions that are significantly better if the Drops are used.

It's also a reasonable route for skilling up (to 231 at least) -- I guess I'm just a bit disappointed it goes no higher.

[Maevenniia]

Don't forget that snaring potions are encroaching on snaring classes abilities, so I think it is perfectly reasonable for teh highest level potions to have somewhat rare ingredients. The regular Taelosian sludge is not rare at all, it's just the Highland sludge that is rare.

[Gaell Stormracer]

Well, the 'encroachment' is pretty nearly complete by now -- Monks get a Snare AA, Berserkers have a Snare, Beastlords have a Snare pet... can't be too many classes that don't have access to it without mentioning these potions....

But, as I said, if the (possible) issue of how likely these potions are to land is addressed, I have no complaints about the implementation.

[Greeznok]

The only caveat is that it APPEARS that the new snare effect is not anywhere as hard to resist as the old... hopefully this can be addressed via a patch.

Basic Suspension of Slime I = Suspension of Slime = No resist mod
Basic Suspension of Slime VIII = Suspension of Slime = No resist mod

Ensnaring Concoction I = Ensnaring Concoction I = -20 resist mod
Ensnaring Concoction VI = Ensnaring Concoction VI = -80 resist mod

Ensnaring Concoction VI has a -80 resist check, Suspension of Slime has NO resist modifier, so the new snare potions will be resisted more, not less.

Yes they are more powerful/longer snares then the Ensnaring Concoction VI, BUT they are no different from lvl I to lvl VIII, and can only assume that lvl IX and X are the smae effect as all the others use, so the higher lvl ones are not more useful then the lower lvl ones, and you still have the same resists you would with the lvl I that required NO FARMING KEYED ZONES

[Gaell Stormracer]

I think I used too many double negatives, perhaps: "not anywhere as hard to resist as the old" means the same as "much easier to resist than the old" means the same as "the new ones will be resisted more than the old".

(It would hardly be an 'issue' for us if the new potions were less resisted than the old, after all )

[Mukkul]

It looks like the snare effect scales up with the more powerful potions. Unfortunately they seem to have both player level requirements and mob level caps, so you have to use a certain level potion depending on your level and the mobs you are fighting. For lower level players the snare effect is too weak to do any good, upper level players can't make the appropriate potions from store-bought parts, so the only players that might get some use out of these would be mid-level.

[Gaell Stormracer]

Yes, that would indeed be the unfortunate consequence of having the caster level set by the potion: a spell cast by a level 35 caster has very little chance to land on a level 70 mob...

Of course, the CASTER level need not be the same as the REQUIRED level... and indeed caster level may well be able to exceed the current player cap of 70. If so, I am sure there's some bit of fiddling that would allow the casting level of the potions to be tweaked upward to make them actually useful -- eg level X potions have an effective caster level of 80, IX = 75, VIII = 70, VII = 65, etc -- and the amount of the slow-down can be tweaked in the spell effect formula so as to cap out the same as it does currently. The alternative would be to add in a negative resist mod as with the older potions, which would act to offset this problem.

[sownow]

So a God era potions, should not use GoD Era components?

actually negreth the god era versions did not require drops

the DoN era ones did but were not locked away in keyed zones or were foragable. The problem with potions needing foraged or dropped components is that they are underpodwered for the drops required particulairly for the droped ones ... heck in the case of the cold muke potion from DoN I personally NEVER saw the drop necessary and i spent a lot of time in those zones. now back when they were bugged and were able to be preserved by having an thrown item in the ranged slot that was fine but out side of the recipies for thrown potions with dropped components Yielding stacks of 50-100 they are not likely to be used IMO because they are consumed far too quickly and for far too small an effect.

Think of the potions like arrows because that is really how they work no one other than rangers use the higher end arrows because they dont have endless quiver ... well no one uses the potions for a simular reason.

As a side note would it be possible to make it so thrown potions do not have to be in the range slot and ammo slot? perhaps expanding the default potion belt 1 or 2 spots or adding 1 or 2 spots for thrown potions only. I personally find them more of a pain to use because of having to swap the range item in and out and the Bandolier often just makes a mess of my bags.

[Ueauvan]

frankly as a ranger im very happy that they are easier to resist, the best snare i have is 69th quested vis DoN -30 chromatic and potions were better. no way should a flask of whatever be better than me at snaring, no fizzle, no mana. this sort of potion farms out what little utility hybrids have left

[Gaell Stormracer]

Frankly, if you were losing places in groups because snare potions were better than you, then there was probably something more fundementally wrong than snare potions being too good. :P

[sownow]

actually depends on your perspective magic can fail ... Tar on the ground cant :P

and im sorry the potions are NO Where near as good as ranger/druid snare ... if you think so you are just trying to find a reason to whine.