Alchemy idea: Rez potions

[Jetfire]

This is a repeat of the idea I originally posted here

I'm reposting here as well to see what other feedback there might be.


Yesterday, I had my chance to experience some of the GoD trials. I had tonnes of fun, but of the two we tried, both times we had to abort because our only rezzer (me) died deeper in. Actually the first time was almost a full party wipe, but the second time only 4 of us died. The ranger (somehow) survived along with the monk. If either of them had had the ability to rez me, we could've gone on and won, but instead we took the loss. (No grumbling, just the facts).

So in light of this, I propose a new set of Alchemy recipes for Shaman, that will require a cleric-made component (so Clerics will still have a hand in rezes sort've). They will be expensive, 500pp+ per shot (or some other high balancing amount), and I would also make them race-type dependant.

I want these to be expensive so people won't necessarily be using them all the time in regular grind spots, but not so expensive people won't be able to have them to use in emergencies/ideal situations.

How I propose these will work is as follows:

Clerics get 5 new spells, to enchant a race meat and form a vial containing the essence of the race. May also use a gem as well if that's possible.

So we get:

Spirit of Humanity: Uses Erudite, Human, Barbarian meat. Forms a vial of Spirit of Humanity.
Spirit of Tier (or whatever the name of the elf race is): Uses High, Dark, Wood elf meat. Forms Vial of Spirit of *name*
Spirit of Shortness: Uses Gnome, Dwarf or Halfling meat: Forms a vial of Spirit of Shortness (need a better name)
Spirit of the Wild: Uses Vah Shir, Iksar or Frogluk meat: Forms a vial of Spirit of the Wild.
Spirit of Ugliness: Uses Ogre or Troll meat. (Maybe we can just shift them into the Wild spell.

With these vials, Shamen get new alchemy recipes that are fairly high level (limited to Shaman over L55 or so and a medium skill. They should have a high success rate)

They can combine the Spirit with a gem and some spices and form a Potion of Resurection of *name*, which will be a 1 charnge 90% Rez (or 80% or some suitable value) for a corpse of the race.

They can also combine 5-10 of these potions to make a 5-10 charge of it.

For a bigger risk (a high trivial but medium success rate combine), they can combine 1 potion of each type together and make a plain "Potion of Resurection" which is a X% Rez for any body type, not race limited.

Remember: My idea here is to make available a way people other than the rez classes can rez the cleric or necro or pally in emergencies. The cost is to make it detrimental to using these potions in normal grinding; but useful for guilds to cover the cost to have their FD's keep a few on them for emergencies.

As an addendum, someone in the original thread brought up corpse dragging to the mob target and rez/CoHing people in. My proposed solution would be to set a max distance a corpse can be dragged before the potions won't work, a distance big enough to get bodies away from the mob but short enough that you can't drag/Rez/CoH a raid in from the zone line.


Thoughts on this?

[Minda]

I think this is an excellent idea. I think it's great that you have the cleric and shaman working together on this.

[Grimlach]

bout time

I have 200 alchemy, 10% stone, and alchemy mastery 3; and this is by far the best idea I've heard for alchemy, ever.

I would reccomend that noone that could feign death could use them tho, necros already get a 93 res. A wipe without a necro or a monk with res stick should still be a wipe.

My reccommendation would be to have a chief component be a lvl 65 cleric spell that costs 1k mana and uses a regular diamond. That would put the regular diamonds back in demand. I'd also reccommend putting the trivial at 335 so as us 200+mod and am3 guys dont make them every time.

/shrug I dunno... its a start to at least discuss making a potion that we'd actually use.

[NerissaGoldenrose]

Not sure I like the race-specific part... opens up too many problems with people needing to keep one of each type for emergencies, since you rarely know in advance the race of the person who will *need* it, and having one on your corpse isn't going to help if you're the one who needs to be resurected.

[Thorvari]

I think having bottled 80-90% rez would be too powerful.

SOE has balance issues with allowing monks/rogues to drag and rez a cleric, which has been used in the past to bypass content (PoM bridge). This is why they nerfed the buy price of a rez stick, and goo in DN doesn't drop anymore.

[Tudani]

Perhaps a 0% rez, so that it's not too powerfull, but in exchange let there be only one type of potion to save the pita factor from spending tons of money or carrying lots of types?

[Maisie]

50% rez that is super expensive to make sounds good to me, otherwise it would be too imbalancing in my eyes.


** just my opinion**

[Kakg]

Great idea, some clerics might be resistant to it but I'd say the vast majority would give a hugh collective sigh of relief. From my own experience the constant barrage of requests for rez gets on clerics nerves to teh point where most use rp mode when ever possible.

Not sure about the idea of racial meats being used, can see where your coming from but due to worries about faction issues caused by farming the meats some races will be less supported than others. Can't help but think the use of racial meats would lead to wholesale genocide in the majority of towns in Norrath. Can you imagine the chaos?

What might work better is to use gems to produce varying levels of rez so that say a Ruby would give 50% and a Blue Diamond would be required for 75% say but not restrict thier use to set races.

The question of avoiding content is easy to fix - make the potions self only just as SoW potions are. The respawned player must be next to their corpse within a certain short range, target their corpse then drink the potion. That way the rez potion could only be used to restore XP and can't be abused as a porting device. In addition they should be LORE and single use only.

The only other thing I'd add is..... why do shaman have to be involved at all? Yep, I know this forum is about tradeskills and I'm certain that every shaman on these boards would be bouncing off the the walls in joy at the thought of such great potion to sell, but why should they be involved? Why shouldn't the clerics be allowed to conjure the potion totally by themselves, just as they can imbue gems and enchanters can conjure mana vials? And if clerics can make the vials shouldn't necromancers be permitted to make them too since they get resurection as well at higher levels.........

Hang on - there's a thought. How about this. Cleric imbues a gem to govern the level of the rez, Necromancer gets a sacrificed soul to provide the power source for the rez and the shaman combines them together with some rare foraged herbs to make the final potion?

[NerissaGoldenrose]

The question of avoiding content is easy to fix - make the potions self only just as SoW potions are. The respawned player must be next to their corpse within a certain short range, target their corpse then drink the potion. That way the rez potion could only be used to restore XP and can't be abused as a porting device. In addition they should be LORE and single use only.

The problem with that is that it makes it useless in the situation described -- for getting the cleric back in action when they die deep in a dungeon, without having to fight their way back in.

[Jetfire]

I was using the racial meats to give a link to what is being rezed. So human meats have a certain aura that can draw human spirits back towards the body so to speak.

The easiest way to get those meats is the home towns of course, but there are other ways you can get them.

Spiders in EK for example always seemed to have a large supply of halfling meat.

The big spiders in EF tend to have a lot of barbarian meats as well.

The Dervs in the deserts of Ro and the commonlands could get human (and ogre) meat put on them if they aren't already there.

Mistmore can have dark elf meat, and most light races don't have qualms about hunting darkies anyways.

Frogluk meat comes from Sebilis and Guk (and can even be added to the spiders and to the undead frogs as well).

Iksar meat also can be gotten in Seb from the jailed ones. Veksar mobs could be made to drop it as well.

etc.... In any case there are already lots of places you can get racial meats now if you look around; I just wanted to give another use for them.

[Eleena Transient]

How about something like:

Essence Emerald + Celestial Temper + Vial of x mana + Quintessence (the stuff for pok gate neck).

Viscous - 0%
Cloudy - 25%
Clear - 50%
Distilled - 75%
Purified - 90%

On terris, EEs run 300, blue diamonds 300 (for celestial), so looking at about 750 for the cheapest, 1300ish for expensive, per attempt. Requires a brewer, a necro, a chanter, and of course alchemy.

[Verdandi]

Keep in mind that right now, unless there was a change I missed, if you get a less-than-96% rez, you can have your corpse rezzed again by someone with a higher % to get more exp back. So if you get a 50% rez, you can get a 90% rez after that and get another 40% of your lost exp back. Then if a 96% rezzer comes along before the rez timer is up on your corpse, they could rez you again for the remaining 6% that's possible to get back.

That hasn't changed, has it?

Assuming that is the case, raids would benefit just as much from a 0% rez potion as from a 96% potion. When camp is clear have the feigner use the 0% potion on the cleric, who then fully rezzes herself, and you're back in business without anyone suffering excessive exp loss.

So the folks most likely to use the higher % rezzes would be folks who don't expect to have a high % rezzing class available. That means mostly lower levels and soloers, who may or may not be able to afford a 1k or 2k rez. Although they might sell well enough to people wanting one on hand for Just In Case.

Just some thoughts.

[Aethn]

Rez potions are way to powerful imo. I dont think they are appropriate for the shaman class either.

They can be abused. Monks/Rogues can drag a dead mage to all kinds of places that would be inaccessbile without a raid, then just rez the mage and start a CoTH chain. Vast amounts of content can be skipped. This is the basis for the Vox Staff price nerf. The staff + Monk/Rogue + mage = massive content skipping.

If they gave shaman bottled rez potions, they would almost HAVE to remove CoTH / Summon corpse from the game to reset balance.

[Grimlach]

agree

I agree with regards to abuse. thats why I suggested that feigners shouldnt be able to use... I think bards and rogues shouldnt be able to use either tho, bards can do that fd song and rogues can use that escape ability. Also bards and rogues could both avoid a significant amount of content that feigners can also avoid.

I also liked the idea of an essence emerald being a component, since it requires yet another class to do something, and makes the potion less likely to be used for anything but an emergency.

Seriously I've been thinking hard and I know that people could think up an exploit or two, but if you beta tested these for a while, you could get most of the kinks out. I would just reccomend like a 1 minute cast time. Other than that I'd say the idea is generally solid. I was thinkin someone might try this on a boss fight, but you'd have to res a dead player for the box not to disappear when they zoned, so it would just be as viable as a regular res spell; which is the whole idea. I dont see the harm that could befall giving shaman some decently powered potions... We all know they are expendable, so why make them useless too?

IMO they seriously need to do something good, because I didnt do alchemy 200 and alch mastery 3 because I liked the skill, I just wanted to clear my class aa's and not fail on gate potions. Gate potions and quintessence of knowledge are seriously the only 2 things I ever make... Ever.

[dahna]

Keep in mind that right now, unless there was a change I missed, if you get a less-than-96% rez, you can have your corpse rezzed again by someone with a higher % to get more exp back. So if you get a 50% rez, you can get a 90% rez after that and get another 40% of your lost exp back. Then if a 96% rezzer comes along before the rez timer is up on your corpse, they could rez you again for the remaining 6% that's possible to get back.

That hasn't changed, has it?

I fear that you might be wrong, because since I play (from Kunark expansion), I was never be able to stack higher rez on another one.
Just tested it, if you die and get a 50% rez, you cannot get your 40% back from a 90% rez (even if using rez stick or divine rez).

So a 0% rez potion would have to be used in a very last resort, because the loss is quite significant (5% if I remind at lvl 65)