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**Lilosh** · 07-18-2003, 09:07 PM

They closed and reissued the card since you forgot the PIN?

I work for a bank, and that's Freaking WEIRD.

-Lilosh

**Tobin Itharel** · 07-18-2003, 11:10 PM

Some banks do it that way - sorry to hear your problem. Let me give you a bank story to compare to and you will feel better.

A year ago, my bank caused me to have to sleep in my car for two days.

I was on vacation in Florida and on my last day I was ready to return home. I bid my friends goodbye and got in my car to drive north on Route 95 back to New Jersey. They left at the same time for vacation in South Florida. I pulled into the gas station at the interstate and inserted my card in the gas pump and it would not function. I used my cellphone to call the bank and discovered that my rent check had been withdrawn from my account twice. The same check taken out of the account twice. I asked customer service to please refund the money back into my account, as this was an obvious mistake. They said there was nothing they would do until Monday morning. I had $19 cash to me. I'm a diabetic. I had three Subway sandwiches in the cooler and two cans of soda. The temperature outside was 95 degrees. And there was nothing I could do accept staying in my car in the driveway of my friends house who had already left on their vacation. The local police would not even help me and I could not rewach family on the phone as they were out of town too. That was a nightmare.

So you can see a bank can make some really stupid mistakes. I hope your back in EverQuest soon, good luck.

**Stugein** · 07-19-2003, 08:04 AM

Lilosh - I don't know if it makes any difference, but it's actually a credit union (NFCU), not a bank. I know there are differences (like one being non-profit), but I keep calling it a bank anyway. But yeah, they won't reset PIN numbers and they can't tell you what it was. They always can the card and send you a new one.

Tobin - Thats awful! That's horrible! New Jersey!? Oh the humanity! You poor thing!

**Itek** · 07-19-2003, 11:45 AM

Eek....

I knew there was a reason I put a sticky note on the side of my computer with the billing dates... now I remember.

*mental note* Please remember to have cash in the debit card of at least 37 bucks 3 months after -this-date- to pay for the next 3 months.
*mental note* Remember to cancel billing a week or two after paying so that in case the account is low it won't overdraw the account.

Banks... *watches mods out of corner of his eye* ....

Well, let's just say they are not charitable institutions. I have found ONE that I have had good experience with. I am NEVER canceling that account. Ever. It's in a bank 2000 miles away from my house. (thank goodness for direct deposit and ATM/Debit Cards)

I think everyone who CAN should get at least TWO Debit/ATM accounts. If one goes .... belly up... due to an error... at least then you have a second card.

And if your credit rating is good enough... get ONE actual CREDIT card. You must have one. It's impossible to live without one. (can't rent a car, anywhere, ever, without a CREDIT card, debit cards don't count and they won't take CASH) Use it ONLY for emergency. Because it never fails. The week before you start a new job after being out of work for 6 months... the radiator in your car WILL explode and you will suddenly need a thousand bucks to be mobile again.

Lifetime banking goals...

Find a good bank.
Find a decent second bank.
Get a job with direct deposit.
Find a grocery store that accepts ATM/Debit cards and gives cash back for no fee. (Why pay 2.00 to the ATM and 1.50 to the bank when you can just buy a soda and chips and get 20.00 cash??)
Get a real Credit Card that you almost never use. (if you -never- use it they will cancel it, and then getting another one with be an even bigger pain)

Oh, and no matter WHAT you must keep seperate funds from your spouse. Because if you ONLY have joint accounts and one of you dies... the bank WILL freeze the account until the estate is settled. (Not true in every state, or in every circumstance, but would you like to find out AFTER your spouse dies that you have NO money that you can access? Better safe than really really sorry.)

**Lilosh** · 07-19-2003, 12:24 PM

Itek, Alot of that is darn sound advice.

As CS for as bank, I wish more people were that smart. :-)

Banks are NOT your friend. No matter what our commercials say, they are there to MAKE MONEY. They aren't there to give you a break, or be your understanding buddy.

The idea about a second account is a good one. All eggs in one basket is asking for trouble. If a card gets stolen, or a bank makes an error, or you make an error, then without a second account, you are very much out of luck for a few days/weeks. :-/

And an emergency credit card is not a bad idea at all.

-Lilosh

**Xenephex** · 07-19-2003, 03:02 PM

I also spent a long time working for banks as a programmer, and the one thing about this that baffles me is:

The CARD is not the ACCOUNT. Cancelling the card should have had no effect on your actual account, either the debit(checking) account or the semi-phantom credit card tied to it (which is, I assume, what your EQ account is billed to).

As someone who used to have to program for transaction safety and redundancy, the idea of some bank teller or officer being able to completely terminate an account like that from their terminal is nightmarish.

For example, if you had previously walked into a store that day and used your card as a credit card, the money may have been immediately removed from your account, but that transaction does not finally process until at least that night's processing run.

If they really did this, that is bad banking practice.

**Lilosh** · 07-19-2003, 04:00 PM

Aye, the card is not the account. Very very true words.

But it may have happened like this

12p - Stugein loses PIN, card gets turned off
2p-Everquest decides to take money, pings bank, says "Is card good/Are funds available?"
2p- Bank says Card = Lost/Stolen/Closed.

Sony then says KTHXBYE, and closes the EQ account.

Even though the payment wouldnt process until after midnight, Sony would make sure the card isn't declined at whatever time their system tries to take the money.

Indeed, the gods of timing were not on his side that day.

-Lilosh

**Silound** · 07-19-2003, 06:02 PM

Hyep, that happened to me switchinig accounts between major cards once. Put a hold on on card because I thought I lost it. Ok no biggie. I log on and of course, that morning was billing day for EQ

Had to move it to another card for the time. BTW, I found the card in the bottom of the washer, about 1 hour AFTER I had moved the account and such. Yeesh

Silound

**xaanru** · 07-20-2003, 07:29 PM

My ATM card is one of those "Check Cards" that can act as an ATM card, or as a credit/debit card that pulls money directly from my bank account. Very convenient.

Get rid of it, as soon as possible, and get a credit card.

Most people don't realize it, but those debit signature cards are the most evil things to ever be created.

Why? you ask.

Here's the deal. Say you have a CREDIT card. it gets stolen. Someone buys a couple jet skis and a motorcycle before you realize its gone.

You contest these charges, and report the card stolen. WHILE the investigation is taking place, they freeze the charges, and you are not required to pay them. Once they determine that, NO it isn't your signature, they cancel the charges off your account.

NOW, THE KICKER

You have a DEBIT card. Same scenario. You notice the card is gone when your checks start bouncing. You report the card stolen. HOWEVER, the bank DOES NOT put the money back in until AFTER the investigation is complete, which could take months.

In the meantime, who's gonna pay the rent? Mortgage? utilities? food bills, etc.....

You'd better have that second bank account, and it better have money in it.

Very convenient

Nope. Just evil!

Unless your credit is really wasted, there are credit card companies that will let you open secured visa accounts, where you deposit money into a savings account, and get a credit line that matches the deposit. Eventually, most of them remove the security requirement, if you keep a good payment history. ANYTHING is better than having a debit card.

BTW, most banks will issue a NON-debit ATM card, if you request it. I would, then burn that debit card.

**Lilosh** · 07-20-2003, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by xaanru

You have a DEBIT card. Same scenario. You notice the card is gone when your checks start bouncing. You report the card stolen. HOWEVER, the bank DOES NOT put the money back in until AFTER the investigation is complete, which could take months.

In the meantime, who's gonna pay the rent? Mortgage? utilities? food bills, etc.....

Err.. No?

Federal Regulations REQUIRE that banks provide you with credit for any disputed charges within 10 business days, while they do their investigation.

If their investigation reveals that you really made the charges, they take the money back. But you have it while they investigate.

In fact, most banks give it sooner then 10 days, but 10 days is the amount required by federal law.

The federal law is referred to as Regulation E, and covers pretty much all electronic transactions.

Quoted from http://www.bankersonline.com/regs/205/205-11.html

Regulation E, section 11 (Dealing with errors)

(c) Time limits and extent of investigation--(1) Ten-day period. A financial institution shall investigate promptly and, except as otherwise provided in this paragraph (c), shall determine whether an error occurred within 10 business days of receiving a notice of error. The institution shall report the results to the consumer within three business days after completing its investigation. The institution shall correct the error within one business day after determining that an error occurred.
(2) Forty-five day period. If the financial institution is unable to complete its investigation within 10 business days, the institution may take up to 45 days from receipt of a notice of error to investigate and determine whether an error occurred, provided the institution does the following:
(i) Provisionally credits the consumer's account in the amount of the alleged error (including interest where applicable) within 10 business days of receiving the error notice. If the financial institution has a reasonable basis for believing that an unauthorized electronic fund transfer has occurred and the institution has satisfied the requirements of Sec. 205.6(a), the institution may withhold a maximum of $50 from the amount credited. An institution need not provisionally credit the consumer's account if:
(A) The institution requires but does not receive written confirmation within 10 business days of an oral notice of error; or
(B) The alleged error involves an account that is subject to Regulation T (Securities Credit by Brokers and Dealers, 12 CFR part 220);
(ii) Informs the consumer, within two business days after the provisional crediting, of the amount and date of the provisional crediting and gives the consumer full use of the funds during the investigation;
(iii) Corrects the error, if any, within one business day after determining that an error occurred; and
(iv) Reports the results to the consumer within three business days after completing its investigation (including, if applicable, notice that a provisional credit has been made final).
(3) Extension of time periods. The time periods in paragraphs (c)(1) and (c)(2) of this section are extended as follows:
(i) The applicable time is 20 business days in place of 10 business days under paragraphs (c)(1) and (c)(2) of this section if the notice of error involves an electronic fund transfer to or from the account within 30 days after the first deposit to the account was made.
(ii) The application time is 90 days in place of 45 days under paragraph (c)(2) of this section, for completing an investigation, if a notice of error involves an electronic fund transfer that:
(A) Was not initiated within a state;
(B) Resulted from a point-of-sale debit card transaction; or
(C) Occurred within 30 days after the first deposit to the account was made.

Translation? You tell us, we give you the money temporarily until we finish investigating, and if we find our you're lieing, we take the money back. At the very worst, we'll hold $50.

-Lilosh

**Tobin Itharel** · 07-21-2003, 02:07 AM

I like New Jersey

**Suva** · 07-21-2003, 02:35 AM

I currently keep 2 bank accounts. One is located in another state where my parents live so if for some reason I ever need money, they can go to my bank and deposit it faster than trying to send it to me. Also nice for if I'm visiting to have a checkbook with a local bank.

I recently forgot the PIN for my ATM card with my local bank and would have been stuck on cash without my second ATM card. I also had some checks go missing out of my checkbook, I reported it to my bank since my totals didn't match my current statement. I neded up with a freeze on my entire account where I could not withdraw money and my checks then bounced cause the bank would not honor them with the freeze. Was very confusing and straightened out now, but for almost 2 weeks I could not use the 1 account.

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