Patch is Bad NERF

[Ladyslipper]

Yes it sounded great I was thrilled, till I hit combine...

on DE cultural tempers prenerf my skill 135 I was failing 1 in ten post NERF I am failing 1 in 3!!!!

on greyhopper armor 88 trivial combines my skill 95 I failed 1 in 3!!!!

I haven't dared to smith because at 50pp plus per attemt I can't afford to attempt.

I sent /feedback to Sony. I am beeging that all tradeskillers do the same. This patch is a wicked nerf! They have {inflamitory term reoved} us tradeskillers repeatedly we have to speak up.

Putra 41 SK 179 smith 95 tailor 135 brewer on Stromm

[Tinile]

I'm not invalidating your concern on whether or not failures are more or less frequent since the patch, as I have not done any combines since then. I do, however, think using the term {inflamitory term removed -Lothay} in that context is inappropriate.

[Cubwynn]

1. Though you may be excited/annoyed/angry, please remember that referring to something as a {inflamitory term removed} is quite serious.

2. Most of us here get very short with people who scream NERF! at every patch.

3. 3 combines does not a sample make. Try 100 or 1000. There really is such a thing a bad luck.

4. After taking my other points into consideration, the appropriate forum would have been the Primal Scream Room.

Please help contribute to EQTraders corner constructively. That's what makes this site great.

[TheGiantOne]

1. Though you may be excited/annoyed/angry, please remember that referring to something as a {bleep} is quite serious.

2. Most of us here get very short with people who scream NERF! at every patch.

3. 3 combines does not a sample make. Try 100 or 1000. There really is such a thing a bad luck.

4. After taking my other points into consideration, the appropriate forum would have been the Primal Scream Room.

Please help contribute to EQTraders corner constructively. That's what makes this site great.

In answer to the above quote

1. Okay lets say we were not treated fairly in tradeskills.

2. Hmm..please be informed I don't scream nerf at every patch just this one.

3. Please look at below samples in my own post which carry 600 tests on just one type of traseskill and offers examples from other GM's in other skills.

4. LoL...Hmm I would have to disagree slightly as more people read these boards than the primal scream room. You cannot just put everything in a primal scream room you disagree with.

Now please read this posts as it does have backup proof of what first poster is saying.

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Hmm..

Okay I can see what has happened here folks.

You have heard the saying "you have to give something to get something in return"?

Thats exactly what Verant has done. Oh yes on the trivial side of things you will see an improvement but on the high end (ANY SKILLUP POINTS) we unfortunately got nerfed whether you want to see it or not.

Before the patch on shadowscream armor (gorget which is trivial at 228). Both tests were done using the gorget mold.

First test was smithing at 188 ending at 200

300 attempts
210 successful combines
90 failures
12 skill points

After the patch the following happened.

This test was smithing starting at 200 and ending at 206

300 attempts
220 successful combines
80 failures
6 skill points

Now do you see what has happened?

On the trivial you are so right X amount of points below our skill. They did improve that and in fact they improved most of the sub combining on most trivials out there. But on a different test combining stonewood sap in brewing barrel as a 250 skill and trophy I failed on a 192 skill combine 60 points below me 3 out of 4 times. Before patch I never failed that recipe.

So Verant has given us very minor trivial combines but in turn nerfed the high end even more. I have seen failures by other Gm's in various skills at various times since the patch.

Tailoring high end 4 out of 5 attempts failed where person had a 1 failure out of 5 rate before patch.

Smithing 3 failures out of 5 where before was 1 out of 5.

Brewing 3 failures out of 4 where before was 0 out of 4.

All of the above were at 250 skill and trophy btw.

Should I go on?

and also to top it off the skill up rate HAS BEEN NERFED by what I would say about 50% change.

What other piece of information which I think will be invaluable to some of you is the following:

DO NOT BELIEVE that because you have a 250 skill and a trophy that you don't have to worry about the stats for that particular skill when you make those high end items. If you trust in that I have a bridge in swamplands to sell you

The following was another test done by myself and by another class making the stonewood compound bow.

10 bow attempts each made at various times so to be a fair chance for the RNG.

Myself:
3 successes with dex at 305.

Other class:
All stats wis, int str dex at 305.
9 successes out of 10.

So yes max out all your stats as high as they can go to get more successes on the high end items even when you are at 250 skill and a trophy in any skill.

So you decide. If the nerfs did not take place and supposedly once you reach 250 and trophy in any skills as is posted all over the place and even backed by Verant that stats do not make a difference (only while you are getting the skill up points) then why the huge difference in successes based on various stats when 2 people have the same exact skill?

Its a question I want answered myself. All the posts I have been reading on these boards and others I belong to seem to support my figures and facts in this post here.

In ending this is just my opinion.

[Lothay]

Since this is a rant, I'm moving it to the Primal Scream Room, with the other rants. Perhaps there it won't feel so lonely and out-of-place.

~Lothay
~Tounge-in-cheek

[Bregalad]

Have to say, I noticed a slight decrease in triv fails. Namely, I brewed up 8 stacks of heady kiola (200 skill), and instead of the usual 1-per-stack fail, I was getting 1-per-two-stacks. In fact, failed exactly 4 out of 80.

[kiztent]

2. Hmm..please be informed I don't scream nerf at every patch just this one.

You may not, but someone does. EVERY PATCH. Without fail.

300 attempts
210 successful combines
90 failures
12 skill points

After the patch the following happened.

This test was smithing starting at 200 and ending at 206

300 attempts
220 successful combines
80 failures
6 skill points

Now do you see what has happened?

And what does this prove? Either set of data is well within average for the particular skill range you are describing. People would have runs like this before the patch, and some even better and some even worse. Heck, we've had someone that did 1200 non-trivial combines and got Z-E-R-O skill ups. He didn't cry nerf, he just stopped smithing. Hell, I've had runs like this in ONE DAY when I was skilling up JC.

Sorry, but one person's experience, especially with such a small set, when people are pre-conditioned to cry about nerfs at the drop of a patch doesn't cut it here. And those 1/4 and 1/5 results you posted? Those pitch you in the company of every person who cried nerf after every patch previous to this one. The zero credibility company.

We've seen these results after every patch, we've heard the cries after every patch. Don't bother. It wasn't nerfed.

[Lling]

Before the patch, as a 250 smith, I failed metal bits. Metal bits!! Out of approximately 80 tries at making blocks and large bricks of acrylia into small bricks, I would ruin at LEAST 5, usually more.

After the patch, I ruined none. I've also had an unusally high success rate in baking, tailoring, fletching, and smithing.

For every cry of nerf, you'll have someone with an opposite experience to share.

[Grungor]

While I'm not gonna say it was a nerf, I bake (220) after the patch I've done 100 halas meat pies. I have failed more on the trivial filleting meat than I have on the actual pie combines.

I'm gonna start keeping track of the numbers going forward, but I feel I'm failing more. It might just be my expectations where higher than what was implemented though, since I don't have numbers to back it up.

[Grimina]

my expectations where higher than what was implemented

(thank you for saying that Grungor you said it so succinctly *smile*) I believe that is it exactly. Folks were expecting so much more from the patch than was implemented (or even stated to be implemented). The difference between 5% and .5% is really REALLY small unless you do large amounts of combines. You aren't gonna notice it on 10 or 20 combines when factoring in the good ole RNG. Heck I've had 0% failure rate on stuff only 10 points below my skill on a run of 20 combines. What does that mean? Nothing LOL.

Folks got their hopes up way too far when this change was announced and since the results can't be easily seen on small samples the cries of "nerf" have begun. They never said they were getting rid of the RNG. All you see in small samples is that, it takes large numbers to see a pattern.

[Kingbobb]

Before the patch, I had noticed a decrease in success on Fierce Heraldic. I don't have data, but it was significant. Does that mean there was a nerf of me before the patch?

Your numbers look pretty normal for those items and triv levels, and your 250 numbers are too few to really be a good indicator of high end combines. But I do think that we need to keep an eye on this, to make sure that the change hasn't had an undisclosed effect on high end tradeskills.

[Silound]

Sorry, unless I've been tooling away happily with the RNG, I havent seen a problem with success or skillups at all. Did a ton of very trivial brewing (Heady Kiolas after I trivialed jumjum beer) and tailoring combines (Leather Padding), did a handful of >250 tailoring combines (in the 160's in skill here), did a handful of 240's smithing at 194ish, took brewing from 0-168 (or whatever jumjum beer trivials at) on my cleric. Same old story on skillups and successes/fails. Got a few, went a streak, got a few, etc. Nothing unusual. Not to totally negate your thoughts, but something as large as an accross the board success/skillup rate change would a)require major (not massive, just big) code changes b)would require testing, and c)would probably be announced, seeign as most any changes are announced in the patch, unless its unintended. Go dance some more with the RNG, you might be trying to lead one way and it the other

Silound

[Arbelac]

Maybe its just really bad luck...but I just went 1/10 on Fierce Bracers.

My success rate before the patch was about 2/5.

Will have to try another batch again...maybe just bad RNG...but I've never quite failed it so much.

[data9724]

You probably went down to the bracer failure that the wood elf cultural had. I do around 40-50% success on the belt/tunic/legs/arms, but failed last 14 tries at bracers in a row, given up now. Out of the last 25 bracers i made 1.

[Reflan]

I rarely have successes on BD cultural plate bracers. I would say I succeed at perhaps one in 7 or 8 at the very best, and have had extended runs of much worse. Bracers are actually by far the most expensive cultural I've wound up trying, and the item doesn't sell for a price to make up for it.

At this point I consider bracers a break-even proposition and will not make them for order except as a special favor to someone. I don't need to spend the same amount in materials to make one bracer that I would for a fistfull of breastplates that would sell for three times as much each.

Perhaps the trivials on bracers have been set extraordinarily high to discourage market flooding. After all, they are very good items for something that can be made with a single sheet of BD.

I was very surprised when I read these boards and saw a number of people saying their luck with bracers was atrocious. I had thought my luck on that was unbelievably freaky, just way out of control. But when I saw other people saying the same thing, I started to take it as the norm for bracers. And now I read about someone else having trouble with bracers.

Count yourself pretty lucky on normally getting 2 out of 5 successes. I don't think the patch had anything to do with your increased rate of failures on bracers lately. In fact, you just stopped getting as lucky as you had been before.