A small(?) baking rant.

[Ruatha]

Would it kill SOE to make just a little bit easier and less expensive for non-foraging race/class combos to GM baking?

Found 34 Griffon Meats in the Bazaar for 10p each. Bought 'em.
Went out with guildies into JP and fought griffs for three or four hours.
Scored 17 Griffon Meats (and one Anaconda meat) in that time.
Made 41 Griffon Melt combine attempts.
No skill raises.

Cleaned out bank. Found a bunch of old brownie parts that have been sitting there FRO EVAR!
Made a bunch of white chocolate. End up with 35 White Chocolates.
Spent around 240PP :shock: on enough self-made Celestial Essences and Eucalyptus leaves to satisfy requirements for 35 Holy Cake attempts.
Made 35 Holy Cake combine attempts.
No skill raises.

Did more digging in bank. Found enough meats to make 5 attempts on Halas 10lb Meat Pie.
Did all the sub-combines.
Spent 11 or so plat on 5 sage leaves.
Made 5 Halas 10lb Meat Pie attempts.
No skill raises.

Get frustrated.
Look on EQTraders Recipe section to see what I can do to raise skill.
Note that ALMOST EVERY SINGLE RECIPE that will raise my skill from 191 requires some foraged item OR is mind-bogglingly expensive to make.

I guess I wouldn't mind it so much if the drop rate for griffon meat were higher. 17 griffon meats in 3-4 hours (with a ranger tracking griffs and anacondas and pulling them without interference from the other critters) is not exactly what I would call a great way to raise baking skill. If I'm just trying to solo griffs, I get even less (as you might imagine) mainly due to the fact that I can't track, and I have to avoid the other (aggro) critters (since I don't wanna lower my Jaggepine faction).

And before you suggest it, no, I don't want to start a Ranger or Druid alt. I shouldn't have to is my point. I realize that Norrath is neither perfect nor ideal, but in a perfect, ideal world there would be a path to 250 Baking that wasn't any more difficult for non-foragers than it was for foragers, instead of the current situation, which is skewed heavily towards race/class combos that can forage (particularly ones that can forage zone specific items).

Anyhow, thanks for letting me vent.

[Delfontes]

Found enough meats to make 5 attempts on Halas 10lb Meat Pie.

Eh?

[Iannyen]

I believe Del is referring to the fact that unless you pooched 50% of your filets to "in sauce", then you should have had at least 10 attempts based on meat yeilds. Unless you forgot that you can buy the single yeild meats from a vendor.

As far as the supplies go, vegetables and fruit are often found in the bazaar for very little money. Or you can go to GFay and auction that you want to buy vegetables and fruit. Help a noob out with a few plat, some handme down gear, something in exchange for a new ranger or druid's forrages.

BTW, those brownie parts you turned into 35 winter chocolates would have made 3500 Misty Thicket Picnic attempts had you gone that route.

[kiztent]

Wimp.

You need to strip mine the vendors and get vann toes, jord meat, hobgoblin meat and all the rest of the tasty pop 250 triv combines. Baking's not that bad.

And convert your brownie parts to MTPs, you go much further that way. Yea, yea, vegetables. Still not that bad.

[Ruatha]

I believe Del is referring to the fact that unless you pooched 50% of your filets to "in sauce", then you should have had at least 10 attempts based on meat yeilds. Unless you forgot that you can buy the single yeild meats from a vendor.

Nah, in this case I had found some pre-filleted Mammoth and Lion meat on a vendor. I bought the max the vendor had, which was 6 of one and 5 of the other. So it wasn't a case of me buying raw mammoth meat or whatever and filleting it myself (and thus getting 10 fillets).

As far as the supplies go, vegetables and fruit are often found in the bazaar for very little money. Or you can go to GFay and auction that you want to buy vegetables and fruit. Help a noob out with a few plat, some handme down gear, something in exchange for a new ranger or druid's forrages.

This doesn't address my fundamental gripe, however, which is that SOE has made Baking a very "forage-centric" skill.

If I was a Druid or a Ranger, I could sit in Jaggedpine Forest and hit "Forage" over and over for a few hours until I had several stacks of Plant Shoots. Then I could go into the Basilisk Caves and kill basilisks for their eggs. Or I could go to the Paineel newbie yard and kill snakes for their eggs. Or I could go to the Rathe Mountains or East Karana or the Feerrott and hit "Forage" over and over again until I had several stacks of Basilisk, Griffon, or Alligator Eggs respectively. Then I could make a buncha noodles and buy some cheese. What would this cost me?

Acquiring Plant Shoots: A few hours of hitting "Forage" over and over again.
Acquiring enough eggs to make enough noodles: A few hours of hitting "Forage" over and over again OR a few hours of hitting "Auto-attack" over and over again, depending on personal preference.
Making Noodles: Some time and...what? Maybe a gold piece per stack of noodles?
Making Cheesy Vegetable Casserole: Some more time and...what? How much does Cheese cost again? I don't remember offhand, but it's less than a gold per single slice o' cheese, and less than a plat for a stack of 20.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no similarly easy, inexpensive path to 250 Baking for a non-foraging race/class combo. And, not to put too fine a point on it, I think that's a crock.

Heck, they could at least throw us Fisherfolk a bone and make some "Trivials at 250 or higher" recipies which require cheap baking components combined with zone-specific fish from non-planar zones. Since anybody in the game can get their fishing skill up to 200, this would at least provide an alternative path to 250 Baking for those of us who can't forage.

I mean, really, what's the difference between sitting in Jaggedpine for a few hours hitting "Forage" over and over again so you can make Cheesy Vegetable Casseroles, and (hypothetically) sitting in Najena for a few hours hitting "Fish" over and over again so you can get a few stacks of Najena Grunion or something, and then combining that with Milk and Spices to make "Najena Grunion Stew" (or whatever) which would get you to 250 Baking as quickly as Cheesy Vegetable Casserole does for foraging classes?

BTW, those brownie parts you turned into 35 winter chocolates would have made 3500 Misty Thicket Picnic attempts had you gone that route.

That would be the Misty Thicket Picnic that requires all the foraged components?

[kiztent]

And, not to put too fine a point on it, I think that's a crock.

Heck, they could at least throw us Fisherfolk a bone and make some "Trivials at 250 or higher" recipies which require cheap baking components combined with zone-specific fish from non-planar zones. Since anybody in the game can get their fishing skill up to 200, this would at least provide an alternative path to 250 Baking for those of us who can't forage.

Crock. You mean like the large slumber fish pie. AHAHAHA. I get it.

Hunt in PoP. Seriously.

[Ruatha]

Hunt in PoP. Seriously.

56th level. Not flagged for any PoP zone that requires one. Only PoP zones I've hunted in are the ones that are accessible to everybody, and I haven't done much of that. I'm a total PoP newb for all intents and purposes.

If I could just find a way to get into the Plane of Water with my fishing pole... /skeem

[Delfontes]

You found fillet bear/wolf on a vendor?

Ok, that is suprising, I may sell off 1-3 of wolf/mamoth, when I have left over from better success on the other... but if I have more of both, it is going into pies, heheh.

As for the foraging, I was in on a thread saying to give every class an AA for foraging or some such... but in this case I have to defend the foragers a bit, as your perception seems off:

If I was a Druid or a Ranger, I could sit in Jaggedpine Forest and hit "Forage" over and over for a few hours until I had several stacks of Plant Shoots.

It has been widely reported that JP has TONS of unique forages, plant shoots are just 1 of them. If the ranger that was pulling for your group had foraged the entire time for you, I'd think based on previous posts he would have had maybe 10 plant shoots.

To get several stacks, you'd have to sit at the comp pressing forage for I'm guessing 20 hours or so... a forager can be more specific.

If you don't want to forage, do HMP to 226 or whatever, I can hunt mamoths/wolves enough for 100 combines in roughly 1 hour. If you are willing to buy Meat in bazaar, you can also buy vegatables.

I really don't have a problem with baking being a bit hard to get to 250... I more have a problem with Brewing having it too easy, hehe.

[Suva]

My experience foraging for a few hours in jaggedpine was that plant shoots were a non-common forage. I was there about 3 hours and didn;t even get 1 stack. Fishing tables for the most part(but not all) have fewer items on them to take a chance at getting. Fruit and veggies are common and you get them on so many zones. Probably why they are regularly sold in bazaar and plant shoots are not. I'm not sure about your server, but you can get veggies and fruit for 5g each or less regularly. I play a druid and can forage, but when i skille dup baking I bought my veggies in bazaar mostly since theyw ere so cheap to get rather than spend so much time. You want to fish for baking pieces? By the time you get bait and poles and get enough fish for a series of combines, you probably could have cheaper bought the fruit and veggies from those foragers.

[Lothay]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but EQ was and is designed around player cooperation.

If you need foraged goodies, you're supposed to find a forager. If you need enchanted stuff, you find an enchanter. Can't solo a mob to get some neat item you want? Get some friends to help.

Yes, I know the frustration of not being able to do it all yourself. Yes, it feels unfair that just because some other people get the forage button, they have a leg up over you on some skills.

It doesn't matter. The game is designed to require cooperation between players. This is a facet of the game that will never change. Otherwise, there is no point at all in an online game of this nature.

~Lothay

[Iannyen]

Iannyen Sparklybitz
Beguiler of 55 Illusions
Proud Member of The Appointed
and Bearer of the Seventh Shawl

250 Grandmaster Jeweler
250 Grandmaster Baker
200 Master Brewer
195 Master Potter
194 Master Blacksmith (@%*^&@, MAH THUMB!!!!!!)
180 Master Tailor (don't know who this Wu guy is, but I want him dead)
168 Fletcher (I'm an Enchanter for Pete's sake...)
195 Master [Fisherman] (I just couldn't go through with the joke...)
160 Master Drunkard

**Ahem**
Quoted my own sig just to prove a point.

*edit* Bolded to clarify point and to correct a horrible spelling mistake. Feh on me.

[Ruatha]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but EQ was and is designed around player cooperation.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I can still think it's a crock if I wanna.

And I do. And you CAN'T STOP ME! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Ruatha]

**Ahem**
Quoted my own sig just to prove a point.

Um. I don't think I'm getting what that point might be, though. Blame it on my Naturally Low Gnomish Wisdom(tm).

I mean, if your point is that people can get to 250 Baking under the current system, well, I never claimed otherwise.

I guess I'm just not getting the disagreement here. It's almost as though you feel there shouldn't be another, alternate path to 250 Baking that doesn't involve Foraging. Is that a correct assessment of your position? If so, why do you feel that way?

[Suva]

recipies that go to 250(or very close to) that do not involve foraging and only use the basic PoP zones a level 56 with no additional flags could hunt in:

Anaconda melt
Cheesy anaconda casserole
Cheesy Griffon casserole
Griffon melt
Holy cake
Hobgoblin suprise
Mephit sandwich
Swamp rat crunchies
Candied tae ew
Tae ew soup
Tae ew pie
----------------
You posted you had been making some of these recipies and how hard to get the parts was. That foragers get this huge advantage. In the time it takes to forage up the stuff, you can get the meats to bake this other stuff and depending on level you can also get a good amount of exp. You get no exp while foraging if that is the only reason you are in a zone. If all you do is sit and forage you also do not get drops off mobs to sell for cash. Most foraged stuff cannot be sold to a vendor. Foragers also only get 6 additional recipies from the same zones as the above stuff, and almost every one of those the foraged piece is veggies.

Is the issue really that foragers have this seemingly huge advantage or just frustration in the having to farm components? If it's the frustration from farming, let me tell ya...a lot of tradeskilling is in the farming of the parts. Yes, it's boring killing mobs that are green or give little exp. And yes, drop rates can really suck. Tradeskills are not supposed to be easy. If they were easy, everyone would be a 1750.

I guess I'm just sick of the rants about how easy foragers have it. It's not fun to sit in a zone and just hit forage when it pops. Foraging is also not fast. Those rare foragers just do not pop onto the cursor. You can spend hours to get 1 stack. I thought about doing the plant shoots thing, but after 3 hrs and not even having a full stack I gave up. Wow, plant shoot foraging is so much faster than killing stuff.

[Lothay]

I don't think everyone should be able to do everything by themselves.

I didn't join a multi-player game to do it all myself.

~Lothay