YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES YES YES YES YES YES YESSEY YES YES!!!!

[Gargazon]

So I just found out about the changes on test.

They have increased the blue ranges for a level 65 to level 50, and light blue as low as 45.

If this goes live, and they follow through with removing flagging for tier 2 and 3 zones, this will greatly expand the places a 61+ character can exp at. Not only that, but for me, if I am unable to get a group, I don't have to sit around all day trying for one, or play an alt, i can just break out the ToD and get SOME exp at least while LFG.

Add to this the fact that they have nerfed the exp gain in PoP zone BUT INCREASED the grouping bonus, and I'm a happy warrior when this goes live. Group bonus used to be 2-20% for 2-6 people/ number of people, it is apparently 20-80% now/ no more than 5. So that 6th person won't kill your exp gain. Should make it far easier to get groups, and find places to level at.

They have even tried to set it so that you get better exp with 2 people than you get solo. When you combine that with the single person PoP exp nerf it should be so much easier for all of us who aren't enchanters, shaman, druids, or wizards.

Now if they only follow through with increasing the exp curves in pre PoP zones to be more equitable with the PoP exp bonus like they promised, and make the melee balancing adjustments they also promised I'll be thrilled. After my heart attack at least.

So anyhow, thought I'd share my Herbal Essences moment. I just hope this all goes live

[Reflan]

"increasing the experience curves in pre-PoP zones...."

I'm not sure I'm understanding you right. Are you wanting them to make the early levels get exp easier? Many people already race up to 50 and 60 in a week. How much easier does it have to get? That's one reason why there are people over 60 now who barely know what they're doing, guys asking me the names of common spells they should have seen and used a thousand times already. Sometimes even the spells of their own class!

If they're going to make experience easier for the low levels, they'd better put that adjustment into place that I heard they were considering -- of making high level buffs not stick on lower characters anymore. If that guy who got to 60 in two weeks now makes it in one, I don't think it will be doing anyone in the game any favors.

The grouping bonus thing I kind of like. If you up the grouping bonus, you'll still do okay even if the nerf the PoP experience rates. Maybe even out. All three of my most played characters can solo, but I've always seen it as more of a social game. When I want to solo, I go tradeskill.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

I just have to say, as a 55pally who hates soloing but does anyway since grouping takes an excessive amount of time to find/start and then the xp isn't much better, and has a number of 61+ friends (most 65),

*HUG Test Patchmessage*

The grouping changes, and the con range for post60 changes ... just wow. *cheer* *dance*

[Twofury]

Woot, this should make it soo much easier to lvl /cheer

Reflan, i think he means the xp a 61+ char gets in non-PoP zones, not the xp anyone else gets in those zones

[Cigarskunk]

I've been pointing out to the folks going spastic about them removing the flags that Sony said they were going to incease the level range that the post 60 crowd could XP off of.

If anything, the changes associated with the removal of flags will be bad for the pre-60 crowd as all the lazy and risk adverse post-60 folks start AA/XP farming the zones the 50-60s XP out of for safe, easy, relatively risk free XP.

Expect to see places like Velks and Seb full of annon red folks soloing camps for XP that you need a full group to handle.

[kiztent]

Levelling is easy. There is no need whatsoever to make it easier.

I personally liked that you actually had to put some thought into pushing past level 60. Well, if I do, I lose a lot of exp places, but I get neat powers. Hmm.

Now it's just mindless grinding again.

The group bonus would be nice, but it won't change the fact that if the healer decides to wander AFK for a half hour, then go buy KEI, then you have to find a camp, and oops, had an hour to exp, all gone now. I'll stay for 5 kills. Still much more efficient to solo for an hour at that rate.

[Lilosh]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O


They are gimping solo experience in the planes?


No way. I can understand Increasing the grouping bonus, but not actually lowering the solo exp rate.

Some of us aren't wanted in groups. :-(


-Lilosh

[Delfontes]

I know you're not wanted in groups Lilosh, nothing to do with your class .

/poke

You probably know that I recently soloed to 60 (now 61 and just got cool new baron title). Most past 57 was in planes...

There is a bright side to this though, there are a lot of people that also quad where I do, and a few places where there are enough spawns to support 2 quadders.

Why not just "group" with someone near your level, help if they get in trouble, vice versa. They said with 2 or more people you get "more" exp.

My plan is to solo quad still, but be grouped with another guy solo quadding.

This will also give me more incentive to find a partner, and kill things twice as fast and twice as safe in the tier 2 zones.

[Verdandi]

Levelling is easy. There is no need whatsoever to make it easier.

...

Now it's just mindless grinding again.

Oddly enough, I interpret it exactly opposite of the way that you do. If people want to get to 65 as fast as they possibly can, I don't see what difference it makes if they can now do it in half of a week instead of an entire week. Designing the game around the playing habits of people who wish to bypass the vast majority of the content strikes me as an inherently self-destructive approach. It seems much more productive to focus on the people who see the process of levelling as something to savor and enjoy rather than a small hurdle en route to the end game. I see these changes as an effort in that direction. Just because the 65-in-one-week crowd is vocal and makes the news most often doesn't mean that they form the foundation of the player base. I'm not saying they should be ignored, certainly, but I hardly think the pendulum has swung quite that far just yet.

From my perspective as a high level but casual player, levelling is easy, but also extremely, phenomenally, massively tedious. Since PoP arrived I dinged 60, dinged 61, and got 8 AAs. That's even slower than my very slow average to this point in Everquest. Why? Well, there are two options available. Hunt with guildmates or hunt in pickup groups. Pickup groups are and always have been nothing more than mindless grinding. Nothing has changed there, and nothing in this patch will change it, except perhaps that it'll be easier to find a spot in a group. What this patch will improve most is my the quality of life as a guild member.

When I exp with the guild, I'm constantly feeling guilty about the guildmates who want to group and would be welcome in our group but can't join us because they're not through the trials yet. We're slowly getting them through, but that's a time consuming and tedious process in and of itself. Removing the need for those flags just to exp will save everyone frustration and make it easier for us all to hunt together.

Furthermore, when we exp in guild groups, we're always in the same two zones, PoV and PoS, where we get the best exp. Variety is all well and good, but it's not easy to convince an entire group of people who want exp to go somewhere where the exp is only half as good (if that), simply for the change of scenery. Improving the overall exp gain in older zones means that going elsewhere will have more appeal. It may be that Sebilis will again be overrun by high levels. That can only be an improvement over Sebilis being completely empty, as it usually is nowadays.

I personally liked that you actually had to put some thought into pushing past level 60. Well, if I do, I lose a lot of exp places, but I get neat powers. Hmm.

The way this has worked for me is: My guild needs me to level so that I can land spells more easily, have more powerful spells, and be more durable. That will allow us to progress beyond tier 2. However, levelling much further will pretty much limit me to exactly two zones in the entire world of Everquest, if I want to get anything remotely resembling efficient exp. So I can either help the guild or enjoy the time I spend exping without them (not a small chunk of my time, due to time zone issues and the relatively small size of my guild.) I don't think this is good game design. It is certainly not a choice that makes my playing any more fun. Removing the flag requirements for tier 3 zones will expand my options and allow me to level for my guild's sake without ruining my own fun. Lowering the levels at which creatures give exp will further expand my options and allow me to hunt with guildies in their 50s in zones where they can be productive, without completely sacrificing all benefit for myself.

For me, these changes fix exactly the things that bothered me most about PoP. I'm thrilled!

[sumamael]

The test server patch message, just to clarify what is this all about,

May 27th, 2003
-------------------------

** Experience System Change - Grouping **

We've made some improvements to the way experience is rewarded in all of EverQuest. At its core, the idea is to positively reinforce grouping. There should never be any penalty to adding "that sixth person over there," whatever class they may be, into your group. That is exactly the type of behavior that should be rewarded.

In a massively multi-player game, any mechanic that penalizes those who group is one that we need to take a serious look at. While there are definite benefits to forming "well balanced" groups in terms of damage, tanking, healing, and support, there shouldn't be an active penalty to those who cannot find groups of "optimal" balance.

As it stands in EverQuest, groups gain a 2% to 20% experience bonus, which we refer to as the "group bonus", for having two to six members. In practice, however, this has never been much of a bonus, even in the case of a full group, given that the experience was already being divided six ways.

In the past, we had also attempted to reward people for adventuring in the more challenging Planes of Power zones by making those zones give a better rate of experience.

As of this update, groups now gain 20% to 80% "group bonus" experience for having two to five members.

Full, six-person, groups now see an additional bonus. Their experience is only divided five ways, yet they still gain the 80% "group bonus." For those who think in terms of pie charts, it amounts to a larger piece of a larger pie.

Accordingly, the bonus inherent to Planes of Power zones will be decreased slightly. However, as long as person is grouped with at least one other, they will see an improvement in experience gain over the old system. The one down side to the new system is that there will be a slight decrease in experience for those who do not group, and only for those who do so in Planes of Power zones.

We realize that we are, essentially, "manufacturing" a new type of experience after a kill. As players, we also understand it is the people who spend time in full groups who have to deal with the most interruptions and setup time caused by organizing the extra people. It simply makes sense to reward that extra time, especially if it means bringing more people together. After all, that's the whole point.

We look forward to seeing how these changes play out on Test Server.


** Experience System Change - Level 60+ **

In addition to the above changes, we have increased the range of NPC levels that give a person experience after they reach level 60. The "blue to 65" range has been increased as far as level 50, with the "light blue" range extending to level 45. The best benefits, however, are still for fighting things around and above your level.

The world of EverQuest, at this point in its history, is truly immense and full of the best and most interesting content and visuals out there. Ideally, when a person logs on they should have a wide array of places in which to adventure. The addition of new content shouldn't entirely obsolete what already exists. Hopefully these changes will once again make that the case.

Well as a classic solo class all I can say is that I'm glad to have good friends who invite me into their groups regulary.

I'm also glad to have 234 AAs thus this change will have no impact on me whatsoever now that I can allow myself the luxury to loath soloing and to be able to refuse to solo for xp ever again

[Eumerin]

I especially like what they've done with 6 person groups. Basically, each member of a 6 person group gets experience from a kill at the exact same rate that they would if there were only 5 people in the group. So adding a (competent, mind you) sixth person to a group can NEVER hurt your group!

[Bennan]

This is the only bit that worries me...

"Accordingly, the bonus inherent to Planes of Power zones will be decreased slightly"

I assume the decreased slightly will be 10percent or lower perhaps...

Its a nice plus for groups but.

[Kytelae]

It seems much more productive to focus on the people who see the process of levelling as something to savor and enjoy rather than a small hurdle en route to the end game. I see these changes as an effort in that direction.

I love these sentences, so I had to repeat them. This is how I feel about the game myself, and I believe these changes will make my in-game life much happier.

[Gargazon]

I was definatly talking about the 61-65 crowd, not the 51-60. These changes will make a whole lot of other zones availabe for many of us to exp in when we don't fit the few needed class profiles for the top zones. Right now, as a 63 warrior, I have been so fed up with trying to find groups because I don't have the top gear in the game, and warrior aggro is flat out busted if you have the wrong gear/aa, I haven't exped in over 2 months. It's not that I don't know how to play, EQ isn't hard to play, it's that as a warrior, it's COMPLETELY about gear. Yes AA matter some, but if you take two warriors, with the same number/type of aa, and one has EB weapons, and one doesn't. The one with EB weapons has top end HP gear, and the other doesn't...no contest. Gear >>>>>>>>>>> all.

What this will do is open a LOT more options for a huge number of us who play this game. I like options. I am kinda upset that They may remove all flags b4 tier 4 since I worked my tail off to get the ones I have, but I also got to get the benefits of having those flags until they remove them, so no big deal. Especially since it will be better for the game overall, and make it easier on me overall as well.

So in effect, OS will become an option for me, and parts of VL, Ssra, FG, Hates fury even possibly. PoF is all level 50 mobs, so thats going to make a nice exp spot, anyplace with level 50+ mobs basically. PoP will still be the best place to get exp of course, as it should be, but when it's all filled up, and no one wants a warrior who isn't 65, with 200+ AA and top end gear, I will have someplace to go to get exp, so I CAN get level 65, 200AA and then be able to get better gear. Right now the blue level range is just a roadblock for all unwanted classes who can't solo.

Oh, for the person who was concerned about high level buffs (ie KEI, Virtue, etc) making this change detrimental. That is supposedly going live in the next patch or 2. So if you are under 45, kiss KEI goodbye. That said, I'm not sure I'm too happy about that myself. I think I understand the reason they are doing it, and logically agree. I just think it's gonna be much more of a pita to level my twinks now, but I'll get over it hehe.

Also, the person who was worried about the solo exp nerf...I hate to say it, but I have no sympathy at all. A big reason that some of us are on the outs is because some classes can solo mobs for better exp that they can group. This causes several problems. Among them are the facts that if one person is killing stuff, then thats less mobs for everyone else. If you make it attractive for people to group, there are more overall spots for EVERYONE in groups, and the fact that not all classes can solo. The reason I believe this is an issue, is because the way it is set up, some people simply have a better EQ experience than others because of the inherent class inbalances. This change will go in the direction of helping to fix this problem.

Now it they implement melee balancing I'll be a happy camper. God knows we need balancing. At least most pure melee do. Warriors especially. Not just because I am a warrior either, because warriors are incredibly underpowered atm, unless you have every bell and whistle in the game. Monks in similar situations to mine gear wise are hurting pretty badly as well...but not like we are. Paladins and SKs own in exp groups, so really not a whole lot needs to change there, but they are definatly underpowered when compared to many other classes.

[Reflan]

Warriors definitely have aggro problems; I can cast slows and debuffs much earlier when I'm with a pally or SK. Which makes the group much safer and makes my mana management much more efficient sometimes(sitting around full mana while the tank gets eaten up is kind of silly, and my shaman can't heal really because he needs to save that kind of aggro for when he casts his slow). They're an awful lot more useful than they were pre-PoP though. Now you always need a plate tank and I often like two, in case one goes LD or has to leave -- that way the whole group won't suddenly end if someone's mom yanks him away from the computer by his ear.

On the changes, I'm pretty sure we'll see some very strong negatives along with the positives. There absolutely will be the occasional duo holding certain camps in sebilis and velks and UP which really should be held by a full group of lower levels who can't just head up to the Plane of Fire when Velks is full. Where will the lowbies go when the level 65's would rather just shove them out and solo their entire camp? They have no place else to go.

Laziness and loot greed both will definitely make some very high levels park themselves in places that the game was probably much better off for having them leave back when PoP came out.

The changes will give a lot of people back the game, though. Especially the unflagged people. At least they can grind AA's out more easily even if their flags look a long way away. They'll have a bit more of a future in EQ to look forward to. As SOE said in their message, it's silly to completely obsolesce almost their entire game by making it give no experience to speak of to so many people.

The group bonus thing sounds great, the taking out flags sounds great for the most part, and the letting high levels get experience in relatively low level zones sounds....well, iffy, but possibly great. I'm crossing my fingers on that one.