9th Coldain Prayer Shawl

[Candente Sexybeard]

Ok, is it just me, or are more and more drops for the shoulders coming out of PoP simply *destroying* the Blessed Coldain Prayer Shawl in over-all stats? Sure, they might not have FT3 or extended buff qualities of these new shoulder items, but most of us that are able to complete the 8th prayer shawl could easily get Boots of Flowing Slime and make a much better combo from shoulder/boot of flowing slime than 8th prayer shawl/boots. Didn't Sony say they were going to extend the coldain prayer shawl to 10 steps much like the coldain ring a *long* time ago? Now I know these new fantastic shoulder items are dropping from tier 3 / elemental planes bosses and gods, but I still believe there should be no item short of the plane of time that has stats so much dominant over the coldain shawl after all of the effort and time we put into skilling up to make that **** thing. I guess what I'm asking for is for people to please put in feedbacks for them to finally finish the last steps for the prayer shawls. Please make the 9th and 10th shawls comparable to some of the new shoulder items found in PoP. Actually, if you want to make the shawls require pieces from PoP to complete them, that would be all the better risk vs. reward. With PoP we have fallen away from the entire questing for sweet rewards that we had going for us in Velious and some-what in Luclin and made it into a flag race and picking up pieces for items to quest with and sell the end result during xp groups (ie greater cloak of pernicity). Oh, and although it's off-topic, please split the Bristlebane server, we hit over 3,000 people every night during est peak hours.

[Carmaris]

When they released the 8th shawl, Sony said that was the end of the quest. Nothing much to do after the avatar of a god strolls down and hands you the final prize.

I do believe that they originally intended to go a full 10 shawls, then finally decided against it. However, with the New Tanaan mastery AA's, it would open up possibilities for ways to continue the shawls especially combined with minimum level tradeskill items. Doubt they'll invest the time and effort into it at this point though.

[Cigarskunk]

The reality is that all said, the 8th shawl really isn't on par with tier 3+ planer items in risk/reward/effort dept.

Yes, it's time consuming, but let's face it, for your average tradeskill junky, it's really not THAT bad - heck, depending on what tradeskill you do, you may already have all the skill you need to do the shawl anyway.

I'm a GM baker so I was half way there anyway -

250 baking - more than adequate
110 tailoring for MTP baskets - just needed a little work
122 pottery for various cooking gear - just needed a little work
70 smithing for MTP and misc cooking gear - OK, that one needed real work
175 fletching - I'm a SK and took up fletching in my youth to make my own bows and arrows when they were more effecient then my spells
0 JC - OK, that one I had to do from scratch, but 1500 plat and 2 hours later I was at 181
162 brewing - were I needed to be thanks to jumjum spiced beer

The reality is that I spent more time farming the components for the 5th shawl then I did skilling up stuff that hadn't been dealt with yet.

Yes, some of the components are a PITA to get, but the reality is that anyone who's of the appropiate level to do this is going to spend most of the time farming greens with only the occasional XP giving conflict for the first 7. It's really a very easy quest if you've got patience. I haven't started doing the mobs for the 8th yet, so I can't comment on them, but everyone seems to agree that #5 is the SOB quest and that all the others are cake by comparison.

Besides, every high level expansion seeks to snuff the drops and gear of the previous ones - it has to or folks won't buy it or use it.

Would you really waste your time in PoP if the drops there weren't so uber that anything that the unflagged maggots that are running around the rest of Norath paled in comparison?

Wouldn't you be a little upset if you were one of those elitist 65th level brats and discovered that some mear mortal of an unflagged character that was ONLY in thier low to mid 50s had a shoulder item which was better than YOUR shoulder item which came off of a tier 3 mob with 250k hitpoints that quadded for 1300 a pop?

(Please note that I am a mear 53 level, unflagged, mortal maggot and that the views expressed may not represent all players of higher level then myself.)

[Froni Thunderpaws]

For me and some friends the 8th shawl is something accessible versus those PoP drops - tradeskills are fun for the more casual player in a family guild.

I know that the 8th shawl was the end of that path, but I am really hoping that they will add some more accesible complex quests in one of the zone adds or expansions. They almost did with Jaggedpine, but the effort required (and level for that matter) didn't match the quality of the rewards and even though I am a Karanan druid, I was put off at how narrow the quest offerings were by class (I guess they were to compensate that druids have no Temple of Sol Ro quests - but those quests are much much easier than the JPF ones.) LoY missed because the quests are simple but the drop rate is awful. PoP - what are there besides flags? maybe 8 quests plus the ornate and elemental armors. OK I will stop whining but I really hope they add some new challenging content that is accessible by a greater number of players.

[Candente Sexybeard]

Clarity

I by no means wish for the shawl to be something easy to acquire. In response to Skunk's post, I am a 65 cleric that is hanging out in the tier 3 zone for xp and raiding these bosses from the tier 3+ zones and find it sad that things are dropping that put the shawl to shame after all the time and effort I put into doing the coldain shawl. You see, I took the shawl up to 7 before there was an 8th shawl. I did it back when level 60 was the cap, Velk's was the greatest xp zone in the world, and getting things like Kromrif blood required somewhat of a raid force. The risk/reward back in the Velious era was *incredible* compared to how easy it is to assemble a zerg force take on a tier3 zone boss (except Bertox, which I really have to commend Sony on, that is a fun encounter). I remember one-by-one guildmates showing up to help me kill the siren's for siren's hair when I was trying desperately to solo them. I was inches away from quiting the game that day, but the kind-heart of people coming over the help me when I had been there for days coming out to help me convinced me to stay. Yes doing the tradeskills was a pita to say the least, but the sense of accomplishment that I got when it was all said and done beats out many of the other joys that I have got out of this game, including dinging 65, including all the AA titles, including elemental flags, and including joining a zerg on some gimp like Xegony v1.0 and seeing a shoulder item drop that destroys the shawl in stats. I in no way hope that the 9th and 10th shawl, if implemented, would be something easy or something farmable or something equipable by a level 46 alt the components have been farmed for out of BoT. I would hope that Sony would use the ntm AA abilities to utilize having skill-req combines for the quest. I would hope that Sony would make some of the components no drop and require a fisable force to acquire the items (and how fitting would Plane of Earth be for that). I would hope that final battles would be much like the 10th ring war which used to be fun when it was a challenge and have the epic storyline that epics/coldain ring/SSneck/PoP-TS/Shawl up to this point have. That's one of the few things that make this game fun for me anymore, because Brell knows that grinding away on AA point #128 in BoT/PoT/CoD/Pick-a-zone definitely defys the concept of 'fun'.

I'm not complaining because I want some uber fantastic shoulder slot item that no-one else can get because of my *mighty* level 65 status, I just want to experience the fun again of working towards an end goal quest and the epic feeling of getting there with the combined help of friends/guildmates. It is the entire reason that I still wear the Aegis of Life, although I have more than enough means to acquire a Lodi Shield or something to that effect. Stats be ****ed, I will wear the AoL until the day I die (which can be 3-4 times a day depending on how many PA players are playing around in BoT). All-in-all, I guess I just don't want to see one of the best quests in EQ ever developed die off, I don't care if it means there has to be 36 shawls over the course of the next couple years :P .

[Delfontes]

The enter key is your friend...

hehe

I personally think the Aid Grimmel quest is the "9th Prayer Shawl". The stats on the items you get for that quest are amazing...

What I am somewhat suprised about is that they didn't upgrade Epics for PoP.

Epics are great for the 55-60 crowd (and the lucky 51-54's), but post 60 a lot of epics are being shelved. It is supposed to be the pinnacle of your character, it would be nice for the planes to have allowed you to "continue" your epic quest a bit.

Yeah, there are a few that still get used a whole heck of a lot, and the Wizard one I have no complaints about if I ever get it , but still, they need to continue those quests before they consider a 9th shawl I think.

[Verdandi]

For the record, since there is talk here of the 9th & 10th shawls, here is the last official word we had:

AbsorEQ
Verant Public Relations
(8/6/02 8:14:27 am)
Reply
Re: ...
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Quote:
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I REALLY like the shawl quests. If they don't add a 9th and 10th shawl I will be extremely disappointed. This is defintely something to bug verant about a lot.

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I'm glad you liked them.

But, well, after a god comes by and hands you the last item in your quest... there isn't too much further you should expect the quest to go.

Sorry folks. We're glad you liked the quests, but there aren't any plans to add to that series. It had a definite end, and we reached it.

We'll just have to make new cool stuff for you in PoP.

A

This was quoted over on the old EQ Traders boards and cites a post from Graffe's that no longer exists. I'm quoting it here just for the record.

[Railina]

First, i have to agree on the desire to see quests have a meaningful roll in the game. I'd really like to see people reach a goal by doing something other than rushing to 65 and 4 billion aa so they can get into a guild that might, someday, "Beat EQ". Mostly, i'd like to see something that cannot be done by hacking and slashing your way to 65. I'd be quite happy, personally, if there were some sort of faction involved which most people, in the course of become uber, had trashed beyond repairability. I'd like to see thoguht provocing content which is as much of a challenge for 6 level 30s as it is for 120 level 65+400s. But that's just what i'd like, and it'll never happen in EQ, and likely not anywhere else either.

Sure, they might not have FT3 or extended buff qualities of these new shoulder items, but most of us that are able to complete the 8th prayer shawl could easily get Boots of Flowing Slime and make a much better combo from shoulder/boot of flowing slime than 8th prayer shawl/boots.

I'd kind of like to point out that FT stacks up to 15, so unless you have FT10 or more without boots or shawl you'll be getting the full benefit of having FT on both items.
I'd also like to take issue with

most of us that are able to complete the 8th prayer shawl could easily get Boots of Flowing Slime

If you mean most people who can get the 8th shawl can drop 50-100k in the bazaar, i'm going to have to say you've got no freaking idea what you're talking about. If you mean that everyone who can get the shawl can camp Planks for a week for a rare item to possibly never drop, i'm going to have to say, again, that you have no freaking idea what you're talking about.
The 2 best features of the shawl are:
1) That it is an incremental reward, if you stick with the quest, it keeps getting better, while you may spend months working towards that final step, it's much more rewarding than spending months waiting for something to happen with no sign of progress whatsoever.
2) you can work on the shawl 20 minutes a day, or 8 hours, and it doesn't have much affect on the ammount of /played time it will take you to complete it.

[sumamael]

For me the 8th shawl wasn't too hard, I would consider it an excellent reward for the investment. Well of course I had most of the tradeskills needed before starting and being a necro I could solo all of it till the final IC event.

Even tho I'm soon going to see the elemental planes *crosses fingers* I don't really plan on replacing it. Maybe if I happen to max out my FT and some nice shoulders drop I might consider upgrading it but thats a long way to go considering that I'm currently only at FT4 with the 8th shawl.

[kiztent]

Definiative proof that getting to level 65 does not make you uber:

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=682697

And there is lots of interesting, challenging content for level 30s (and low 40s - Kunark isn't just the exp highway). Everyone is busy levelling in the Overthere and never sees it though.

[Cigarskunk]

I'm not too worried about what kind of shoulder stuff comes up in the future for my SK anyway - I'm one of those players with an equipment bag - not just some resist gear, I'm talking crap that I'm swapping in and out for this, that and the other thing.

At level 53, the 7th (soon 8th) shawl is my best shoulder option without dropping several grand. When I improve it, it will go in my gear bag next to my iksar BP to help decrease down time.

A FT1/3 shoulder item is going to be something I'm going to find very hard to call useless at any realistic point in my EQ lifetime and as a SK, I'm not even getting benefit from the extended buff aspect for the most part - any buff class should be thrilled that they've got an extended buff 4 item that they can call thier own - and it gives FT3 while they're casting all those buffs to boot!

[Railina]

And there is lots of interesting, challenging content for level 30s (and low 40s - Kunark isn't just the exp highway). Everyone is busy levelling in the Overthere and never sees it though.

What i said, specifically, was quests that re interesting and chalenging regardless of level not a quest which is mildly interesting, (aside from 38 endless camps) at the appropriate level but which is trivial to someone with a few more levels. I would *like* to see quests where the challenge isn't solely the result of the level at which it is done, or if they can't come up with a way to do that, perhaps a sort of 'max level' at which the quest can even be attempted.

[Candente Sexybeard]

Things I have missed

I must admit, I had heard (and was pretty sure) that they had put an end to the shawl quests at #8, but never saw any definitive word from a Sony rep that is was *offically* put to rest on the 8th shawl. Thank you for mining the archives for that script from Absor Vendandi.

The entire point that I am trying to make goes way beyond what the current risk/reward for getting the 8th shawl requires and if it is / is not a good piece of equipment for wearing all the time / some of the time / none of the time. The point that I am trying to make is that EQ has been and continuously is moving farther and farther away from the epic quests and journeys to obtain something such as the shawl / coldain ring / epic / etc and focusing more on who can assemble the greatest zerg force to kill A_massive_gimp_PoP_God_93512. Aiding Grimel (sp?) is an excellent example, using PoP tradeskills and the ntm AA abilities to gradually work your way up to a very *very* delicious reward. I agree for the most part on things that have also been discussed in this post, like epic2 quests, but I don't have much experience dealing with doing the wizard epic (being a cleric and all) and can hardly make an educated guess on what needs to be implemented in those cases. However in the current EQ environment, developers are not going to put in any time to make these things happen unless enough people complain about it. Time and time again this has been proven with things as old as /consent being used to move bodies instead of giving people the right to actually *loot* your body, all the way up to current issues like warrior taunt being gimped in PoP and the massive discrepancy in dps between am3/eq rangers and monks/rogues/bsts.

I feel that Skunk is helping to re-iterate my point that this quest has fallen to the way-side. What in my 'old-school' days (if I can call them that) was the pinnacle of a player's dedication to the trade skill arts is now something that a 53 shadow knight can be found doing in his spare-time to obtain an item that is ultimately going to be thrown into his 'equipment bag'. This is in no way meant to slam on Skunk because he is of lower-level and/or PoP abilities than I am. Actually, I am very impressed that an SK has the dedication to raise tradeskills like that since getting int to 255 for skill-ups is probably something that does not come naturally like the rest of us wis/int casters.

In response to Railina's post, I in no way intended for my comment about equipment combinations to mean that all characters capable of getting the 8th shawl can just waltz into the bazaar and drop 100k on a whim to get boots of flowing slime. I'm looking at it from an old-school point of view, which I'm going to make a gross generalization that players able to complete the 7th shawl quest two years ago when they were in their 50s are probably nearing 65 by now, if not 65 and well into AA abilities. For me that doesn't seem like too much of a leap to take. While not all of us have 100k sitting around in the bank ready to buy items like the boots of flowing slime (I know that I certainly do not), we certainly *do* have the means of acquiring the item either from buying or camping them if it ranks high enough on the priorities list of things that we need. Ultimately, getting the 8th shawl requires the same justification of what is an important and worthy use of time.

Just to clarify, the reason you would want to go with one or the other is that FT items do stack up to 15, but not similar FT effects, if that makes any sense. Of course, that was the last I knew and the way it was during SoL, which I took an extended leave of absense from and missed the PoP release. For example, FT1 + FT2 + FT3 + FT4 + FT 5 = FT15. However, FT3 + FT3 + FT3 + FT3 + FT3 = FT3, which is why having two items with FT3 would be a waste of the FT and you could probably find better boots than the remaining 60mana that didn't cost 100k. If they changed it from this and anyone has a posting from Absor or someone else that this is no longer the case, I would love to see it. Then I would make obtaining the boots of flowing slime a priority to stack with the shawl.

Oh, and by the way, not hitting enter every time I type a sentence is something that us 'old-schoolers' call a paragraph. Yeah, I tend to ramble on and on (and on) about topics, but I'm not about to start putting spaces in-between everything I type because that is what ub3r ph47 l3wts d00ds see when using yahoo messenger to send seXX0r cyb0r tells if that is ok m8? What-ever happened to the English language?

[Sanna]

The english language developed paragraphs. It has been proven that reading long lines of small(ish) text causes more eye strain than reading short lines. That's why newspapers and most magazines, and Bibles, have that 'two column' approach. White space makes it easier for the mind to parse.

If the paragraph you type is all a coherent thought, then leave it; that's more or less the definition of a paragraph. But you asked a question (what happened to the english language), so, I took a small liberty and answered it.


A response to something from up above:
Why doesn't [one expansion] improve on [item obtained from previous expansion]?

I think Verant is at least attempting to keep expansions 'self contained'; that Old World of course aside, anything like a Coldain Prayer Shawl that is gained because of the Velious expansion should not be given the opportunity to be bettered due to the Planes of Power expansion. Not everyone can afford to buy all expansions; if I hadn't been a tradeskiller, tackling baking and smithing and tailoring all at the same time, it is seriously doubtable that I would have bought Legends of Ykesha. In the beginning, I bought it for the bank space. Everything else to me is a bonus. And I only have all other expansions because I bought myself Gold for a late Christmas present.

I know someone who, for the longest time, just never bothered to go invest in Luclin. He had the others, but not Luclin. If something aquireable in Velious were upgradable in Luclin, quest wise (ie, you yourself have to interact with the NPC), how 'fair' is that, that they are making him spend money?

Yeah, not a perfect arguement, but to me, that's the general idea. Pop does not leave it's boundaries, Luclin, Velious, Kunark, they do not leave their respective boundaries. Thus, the Coldain Shawls should not be upgradable in Pop, such that you continue that series of quests. The next tradeskill quest is the Aid Grimel one.



I was talking with my BF the other day, and he used the word 'avatar' in a sentence. The three words that immediately flew into my head were: War, Water, and Brell. It struck me at that moment that since the Avatar of Water was the last step in the cleric epic, that may be the clue (outside of being told outright, which indeed we were) that the Shawls are done.


now, even having said that... a while ago, before this thread was created, i was so tired one day that I was falling asleep on my feet and entering short dream stages. In one of these half second dreams, I saw the words '9th Coldain Prayer Shawl', and wondered...... 'what's left to do?'

but still. Shawls are done, it's Aid Grimel now, for something better.

and even so... FT 3 on an item i can totally make? To me, that's still nice.

[sumamael]

However, FT3 + FT3 + FT3 + FT3 + FT3 = FT3, which is why having two items with FT3 would be a waste of the FT and you could probably find better boots than the remaining 60mana that didn't cost 100k.

WRONG.
FT3 + FT3 + FT3 + FT3 + FT3 = FT15
You probably missed the patch message stating that all FT items stack from now on (was like a year ago?).