Why no Froggie Beastlords?

[Cantatus]

Well, also keep in mind that Grobb/Gukta is a very small zone. Originally it housed 3 classes (SK, Warrior and Shaman) and then gained Beastlords. Now the zone houses 5 classes (Paladin, Cleric, Shaman, Warrior and Wizard). Where before there was only one pure caster, there are now 3. Each casting class requires at least 5 venders to hold all of their spells.

I'm sure they could've made room if they needed to, but they probably didn't want to overcrowd the zone.

However, I'd be willing to bet Froglok Beastlords will be added eventually.

[Lyron]

I still think Half Elves were designed to be the offspring only of Wood Elves. They cannot start in Neriak, ever, and only one class may worship Innoruuk, and that comes from the human side. The original coloring of the models looks like a cross between wood elf and human (with the possible exception of that 1 white-haired female). I know genetics can get wonky, but DEF*HUM should have kind of a robin-egg blue thing going on.

There is a Half-elf NPC in Katta who is the child of the Tier`Dal who was the ambassador to the Combine Empire at the time of the Exodus of the Loyalists to Luclin.

If you'll pardon the banal phrase, this might just be the exception that proves the rule. The only DEF*HUM you can point to was the result of the complete isolation of the ambassador from his own kind. The fact that the child in Katta use the HEF model (if, in fact, he does, not going myself) probably just means SOE were too dang lazy to make a new model for one NPC. (They can't do everything.)

As further evidence, HIE, HUM and DEF can be clerics, enchanters, wizards, and magicians, and HEFs cannot. In fact, HEFs can be only the classes that Wood Elves can be, with the exception of Paladins. I think that that is because wood elves are rather against being Orderly, while paladins are forcibly so. (Yes, I'm using info from the old FV rules. but remember, the people who helped make up the FV rules, and the Zek rules that put HEFs with the other good elves, were the game designers who helped make the original game.) HEFs are given more latitude.

Plausible, but. . . The original Tier`Dal had Koada`Dal heritage. Innoruuk corrupted them, and will try to corrupt anything or anyone else if it suits his needs.

Point taken. But remember, Innoruuk tore the elves down and remade them before he granted them power. I doubt he'd be satisfied with anything else.

Each casting class requires at least 5 venders to hold all of their spells.

Actually, they only need 1 vendor, or at most two, to hold the Beastlord spells. I doubt very many people would complain if they had to go to the shaman vendors for their other spells.

I DO know why Frogloks cannot be rogues - it's because Mithaniel Marr wouldn't approve. Mithaniel Marr was specifically excluded from the list of possible deities for both human and half-elf rogues. Mith Marr is, shall we say, direct. I think this Nodwick, while not technically about EQ, demonstrates the idea well. Not all rogues are thieves or assassins, but all rogues are subtle, and, dare we say, sneaky. This can be a good thing, but it runs counter to the grain of the God of Valor. You can say Mith Marr should accept rogues, and you can argue that Frogloks shouldn't be compelled to worship Mith Marr, but given the facts that he doesn't and they are, you must logically conclude that Froglok rogues can't exist.

I have no opinion on froggie monks.

As for safe fall, well, can you really say that frogs are as good as cats at falling from 5-story buildings, and the like? Of course, the real reason is that with a high starting swimming and amphibianous breathing standard, Froggies have been given enough advantages. I don't think very many people want to see Froggies have the XP penalty that Iksar get for all their special abilities. (I know the class XP penalties have been lifted, but I believe the racial ones are still in force. If anyone can quote SOE that they have been lifted, I'd like to hear it.)

Edit - the Nodwick is no longer current, so I canged the link to point to the archive

[Dunthor Warsmith]

every other expansion there is a new playable race - Look at it - Kunark, Velious, Luclin, PoP, and now Ykesha

Kunark had Iksars
Luclin had Vah Shir
Ykesha had Frogloks

Velious and PoP had no playable races introduced.
I consider Evil Erudites to be a "kunark" aspect, and the new races for hybrids (gnomes & halflings) to be "luclin", as they were introduce during that expansion's "era" (ie before the next expansion came and changed everything). Plus those are only modified restrictions as opposed to actual new races.

<hr>

The main reason I think for the class restrictions on Frogloks is the classes that were demonstrated in Guk. All the Froglok classes from there are represented in the evolved Guktaians (sidenote- its annoying that they new and old frog-creatures are both "frogloks". With kerrans, they had the forsight to rename them, which was a little annoying at first but proved logical as it make distinctions easy. With frogloks, there is no way to make the distintions without out adding faction-style names, "Frogloks of Gukta", "Frogloks of Guk", "Frogloks of Sebilis", "Live Frogloks", "Dead Frogloks", etc).

There are additional 'froglok' classes in Guk, but those aren't Frogloks - those are <i>undead</i> frogloks. All the evil classes are on undead mobs. I had been hoping they would extend this to players, giving them the class options but also making them undead flagged, which would be a neat twist.

I had been hoping for Froglok monks somewhat as well. It would extend the monk races (from only two), which would be somewhat annoying as it is kinda fun to have such a restricted class, but a Froglok monk just sounds really fun.
Froglok Beastlords I really don't know. The above roleplay answer seems decient for world-consistancy, but SOE has showed little care for roleplay-based decisions of late. I would guess it is either based on wanting to constrain the BST classes, or really wanting to keep the Frogloks of Gukta faithful to their Guk heritage (since that is where they were made so popular, and why tinker with success? They Gukta frogloks draw *heavily* from established frogloks, unlike the kerrans/Vah shir and the iksar/lizardmen).

Anyhow, just my thoughts

[Lyron]

Velious and PoP had no playable races introduced.

I meant that the pattern was alternating, not that every expansion had a new playable race. My bad on the clarity of the statement. SOE likes to alternate between high level content expansions and all level content expansions.

I had been hoping they would extend this to players, giving them the class options but also making them undead flagged, which would be a neat twist.

Eww. Can you imagine the groanings if PCs in duels and on Zek servers suddenly caught the beatdowns associated with undead-only spells? That'd be ugly.

[Railina]

I had been hoping for Froglok monks somewhat as well. It would extend the monk races (from only two), which would be somewhat annoying as it is kinda fun to have such a restricted class, but a Froglok monk just sounds really fun.

There are currently 3 monk options, one good, one neutral, one evil, this one class, among all classes in the game, is actually balanced internally.

Eww. Can you imagine the groanings if PCs in duels and on Zek servers suddenly caught the beatdowns associated with undead-only spells? That'd be ugly.

As long as it was stated and *implemented at creation* there would be no reason to complain. Of course, trusting them to get it right on the first go is more than i could manage, but that's just me. If it were done propperly, there'd be some nice benefits as counterweight.

[kiztent]

Given that Dark elves are a fairly degenerate race (only race in game wiht table dances! 2gp at the Maiden's fancy), I could see some of them sampling the lesser races, and possibly even having children with humans. I don't see offhand how these cross bred scum could be any lesser in the eyes of Innoruuk than trolls, humans and the various other trash races that worship Father Hate.

In short, I'd be in favor of half dark elf SKs.

[Moonlilly]

The best frog...

Frogs' Legs With Mushrooms And Green Peppers Recipe

1 1/2 pounds frogs' legs

1/2 pound mushrooms, washed, quartered

3 green peppers, seeded, cut in pieces

4 tablespoons butter

flour

seasonings to taste



Dredge frogs' legs with flour. Put frogs' legs and other ingredients in a sauce pan. Cover. Let cook slowly for about 18 minutes. Then serve.

[Axterix EnObelix]

Given that Dark elves are a fairly degenerate race (only race in game wiht table dances! 2gp at the Maiden's fancy), I could see some of them sampling the lesser races, and possibly even having children with humans. I don't see offhand how these cross bred scum could be any lesser in the eyes of Innoruuk than trolls, humans and the various other trash races that worship Father Hate.

I highly doubt the Dark Elves would allow their blood to be weakened by such a perversion...they'd either use something to stop conception, abort, or else sacrifice/kill the baby post birth.

Anyway, on the topic of froggy BLs...

I'm guessing it's the global texture file at work. BL = new animal pet. Didn't want to add that.

Right choice, I think. If they add BL to any race, it should be gnomes, with clockwork rat pets

[Lyron]

As I mentioned before, there's a lot of fat in the global texture file that could be trimmed.... Another idea is to allow people to turn off the distinctive warders, and just use a bear or a wolf model for everyone, since these are already in the global file.

Personally, I'm partial to the clockwork spider model myself. I think it's the best model in the original game. But I don't believe gnomes should be beastlords - they're the antithesis of a race that's close to nature, and to the animal kingdom. If anything, I'd like to see a new class, with a clockwork pet, but adding a new class is a huge pain in the patoot for SOE.

[Pojodan]

I dunno if having one plain warder would help things at all... Plus the animal that is the Beastlord's warder is a part of who they are.. might as well make it an option for every PC to be a naked human model as well.

As far as Froggies being beastlords I've debated both sides of this.. one one side the Frogloks have warriors, clerics -and- paladins.. paladins being a hyrbid between warriors and clerics. They also have shaman and Beastlords are a cross between warriors and shaman (Yeah, yeah, Warriors and Monks, but do Vah Shir, Trolls, Ogres, or Barbarians have monks in their ranks? No. Warriors? Yes), so why not the hybrid that are Beastlords (It's been debated if Beastlords are a hybrid like paladins or more of a seperate class like Bards, but they are far more hybrid, even having the reducded cast time bonus that hybrids get at higher levels, to not think of them as such)
However it was pointed out above that Vah Shir introduced Beastlords to the world when Frogloks where still hiding in Guk.. so, lore-wise it doesn't make sence for them to be beastlords.

[Ngreth Thergn]

I persoanlly believe their could be Half Dark Elves.

I do not believe that it would be beyond them to engage in Forced encounters that would result in children. (And No I will not be more clear than that... it is about as far as I want to go on the description of that subject... and no-one else should describe it in more detail )

That saying... thozse Half Elves could fall to their darker sides...

[Xxyl]

Class/race/diety combo's I don't understand why they aren't allowed....

Half Elf Shadowknights- They are THE hybrid race and not incapable of being evil. If Gnomes can be taunt to be Shadowknights and Halflings can be taught to be Paladin (all in Qeynos by the Bloodsabers and Knights of Thundar I may add) then why wouldn't Half Elves have learned the ways of the Shadowknight by now?

Halfling Bards- This one really baffles me. Even their town music suggests having Bardic roots. Really no point in restricting Halflings from being Bards. No, they aren't necessarily pretty (**** cute though!) but charisma isn't just about looks.

Froglok Beastlords- They are now the only Shamanistic race that doesn't have an alter Beastlord "ego". And if Sony tries to use the "Well they can be Clerics and Wizards as well unlike the other races" they will be full of bull. Frog's can't be Rogues like Barbarians and Vah Shir; Shadowknights like Trolls, Orges, and Iksars; Necromancers like Iksars; or Bards like the Vah Shir.


If they ever add more classes to races those are the 3 I would like and expect to see.

[Eumerin]

Personally, I'm surprised there aren't Erudite bards. Erudites are supposed to be the epitome of culture, and yet they don't have a musically inclined class. I suspect the reason for that is that Verant was only thinking of the more low brow type of bard when they created the character class, but the more culturally inclined a civilization is, the more likely it should be for them to have a bard, imho.

[Grenoble]

If they ever open up evil Froggies as playable, they don't need to go to Guk. There's an evil Frogtown on Kunark in SoNH, I was kinda surprised that never entered into the equation.

Hmm, in going back to D&D roots, tho, how about half-orcs or half-ogres as playable races? No charisma above 25, oh yeah!

Grenoble
47 iksar shammy
Legion of Ka
Erolissi Marr

[Axterix EnObelix]

Personally, I'm surprised there aren't Erudite bards. Erudites are supposed to be the epitome of culture, and yet they don't have a musically inclined class. I suspect the reason for that is that Verant was only thinking of the more low brow type of bard when they created the character class, but the more culturally inclined a civilization is, the more likely it should be for them to have a bard, imho.

Yah, that epitome of culture also likes to pull people's innards out through their mouth to "cleanse" them. Erudites are smart. They are good with magic. But they are not the epitome of culture in anyone's mind but their own. The other snobbish races (high elves and inkies) don't have bards either. Guess snobs don't make good singers, the whole life on the road, learning stories bit, while eating grubs thing doesn't appeal to them or something.

>>If they ever open up evil Froggies as playable, they don't need to go to Guk. There's an evil Frogtown on Kunark in SoNH, I was kinda surprised that never entered into the equation.

Because that would require another expansion. LoY things need to be contained within LoY or the basic no expansions EQ. If they added evil frogloks that were available to all players, they'd have to make them start in either LoY or the old world.