AFK foraging

[Nolrog]

You don't need macroquest to afk forage.

I was just thinking the exact same thing.

[Natem]

My main, a chanter, doesn't have the ability to forage, and since foraged goods are so critical in many tradeskills, I often have to pay large amounts for foraged goods in the bazaar. I have a ranger alt, but I really don't have time to forage en mass.

If the bazaar has a higher stock at a lower price, who really gets hurt? The people overcharging for goods because they can forage while other cant?

This is kind of like jay-walking. While illegal and all, it doesn't really impact anyone in any major ways.

[Melinia]

Not too long ago, my guild had run into this issue of AFK/3rd party foragers and what type of stand our guild would take. We try our best to maintain a good reputation on the server so that weighed so much with this issue. We ended up having to make a statement that this will not be tolerated in our guild. if someone is caught.. they will be booted & risk being reported to SOE.

While researching EQ2 (was in the mysts of toying with EQ2) i ran acrossed an appropriate article. It is a good read: "If you cant play by the Rules"

[Deviator]

user agreement and software license...
9. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to change Game play

rules of conduct...
5. You may not modify any part of the EverQuest Client, Server or any part of the EverQuest Web Page located at <http://www.everquest.com>.

thats all i could find on the site, and none of that says you cant use autofire joysticks, keyboards or even programs so long as they dont modify the EQ app. i know it may not be an accepted way of foraging, but nothing really says they cant do it. macroquest however, is illegal because form what i understand it changes code or something of the everquest.exe. if they are just autoforaging, how could you tell between macroquest and an autofire joystick?

ive had to purchase my fair share of foraged goods, but its a market just like people who farm the same spawn week in and week out never letting others get a shot at it. or someone who buys up all the same item in the bazaar to sell at a very unreasonable price. it may not be morally right, but legally there is nothing in the books(at least that i could find) that says it is not allowed.

i did find this however....

rules of conduct...
6. You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area.

Zone/Area Disruption is defined as any activity designed to harm or inconvenience a number of groups rather than a specific player or group of players. This includes, but is not limited to::

o Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

o Deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players cannot get past.

o Refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by an EQCSR.

o Making excessive and inappropriate use of public channels of communications (/shout, /ooc, etc.).

o Intentionally causing excessive zone latency (creating excessive corpses, abusing spell effects, etc.).

o Causing intentional experience loss to other players (deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc.).

so training the autoforagers is against the rules.

[Diani]

My main, a chanter, doesn't have the ability to forage, and since foraged goods are so critical in many tradeskills, I often have to pay large amounts for foraged goods in the bazaar. I have a ranger alt, but I really don't have time to forage en mass.

If the bazaar has a higher stock at a lower price, who really gets hurt? The people overcharging for goods because they can forage while other cant?

This is kind of like jay-walking. While illegal and all, it doesn't really impact anyone in any major ways.

Cheating a little is just like being a little pregnant

[paalrh]

well its good that using things to autoforage iant cheating then.

[Tobynn]

First, I didn't advocate, encourage or promote anything. I did some story-telling concerning my own adventures with a couple different congregations of afk forage-bots.

The comment regarding GMs have greater issues to deal with truly made me laugh out loud. I guess restoring the Wand_of_the_Nitwit which was accidentally deleted takes priority over blatant and widespread repeated use of 3rd party software. Yeah, GMs are busy with important stuff, thats the ticket. Its been made very clear that GMs can't do a thing unless they witness the infractions, but its also become painfully clear that there is absolutely zero priority to make any effort whatsoever to move quickly in order to witness said event. Its all a non-issue. Wake up.

In todays game, unless you're making a serious consistent effort to become the subject of a multitude of petitions, you're not likely to draw any attention whatsoever from the GM police. Petitions regarding forage bots certainly don't raise any alarms. That being said, where do you think resolving a play-nice issue ranks on the GMs to-do list? Better question .. how many players who experience some untimely demise while in the process of afk foraging take the time to petition anyway?

/petition I left my army of forage bots afk for the day and when I came home from work I found they were dead cuz this guy trained me.


I did like the tentonhammer link above, particularly this tidibt:

"3rd party programs use outside help to do almost anything a player could do while they were actually at the keyboard, only the player doesn't need to be there. Gain levels while you are at work!! Don't like the tedium of tradeskilling? Use a trades bot to do the work for you! It's scary how often these are used, and how many people don't see anything really wrong with them. If a coin farmer and seller uses one, players flip out and demand justice, however, I cannot even count how many legit players I have known that have used 3rd party programs in game to help themselves along."

AFK foraging has become one of these "acceptable" exploits.

And, as is most cases of exploit in the game, more often than not you'll find the player base acts to eliminate the offenders. In recent years I've seen a number of players booted from guilds for merely a mistell of a macro command into a public channel. Ooooppsie! /guildremove buh bye ~

Rules not enforced aren't rules at all. Regardless of how the EULA reads.

[Flehmen]

In one guild I was in I was surprised to find certain forums when I became the guild site web admin... They were no longer used but the general feeling was that to "play" the game seriously and compete for rare drops etc. you simply had to do something outside the rules.

<shrug> I was disappointed and needless to say those people are all out of the guild now...

I do, however, think that the use of these "expoits" points to areas that need improving in the game... Who wants to spend 4-5 hours with 200 forage skill on a toon to get enough tea leaves for a stack, fer instance?

Unfortunately I've not thought of any good solution that would just allow people to throw plat at trade skills to max em out...

[Strokker]

Defiantly using macro program to collect forages. if only beastlord got FD skill or spell, I'd drop a nasty train on them. Not that I advocate intentional training but if they are going to break the rules...

I kill forage-bots and I giggle my *** off each and every time I do it!

I've stumbled upon a group of druid bots at the druid rings in Dreadlands. Had petitioned several times a day for several days running yet the bots continued endlessly creating piles of little brown baggies at their feets. I killed 'em all. I killed 'em all a lot. I killed 'em all some more. They eventually disappeared.

I happened acrosss a group of naked halflings carefully placed in Kael just at the Wakening Lands zone line. Each had the word 'forage' incorporated into the character name. They were all bound there. I made me a truly massive pile of halfling corpses on that day. Hundreds. It was priceless. I laughed til my eyes watered and I began to choke. I rooted one single giant on top of them, and the giant stayed there for hours because as the bots continued to load in, the giants continued to pick them off one at a time. The giant never had a chance to wipe agro and walk back to spawn point. Takes a real idiot to park an army of afk forage-bot at bind points


Cheating is cheating.

Cheating a little bit isn't any better than cheating monumentally.

First, I didn't advocate, encourage or promote anything. I did some story-telling concerning my own adventures with a couple different congregations of afk forage-bots.

The comment regarding GMs have greater issues to deal with truly made me laugh out loud. I guess restoring the Wand_of_the_Nitwit which was accidentally deleted takes priority over blatant and widespread repeated use of 3rd party software. Yeah, GMs are busy with important stuff, thats the ticket. Its been made very clear that GMs can't do a thing unless they witness the infractions, but its also become painfully clear that there is absolutely zero priority to make any effort whatsoever to move quickly in order to witness said event. Its all a non-issue. Wake up.

In todays game, unless you're making a serious consistent effort to become the subject of a multitude of petitions, you're not likely to draw any attention whatsoever from the GM police. Petitions regarding forage bots certainly don't raise any alarms. That being said, where do you think resolving a play-nice issue ranks on the GMs to-do list? Better question .. how many players who experience some untimely demise while in the process of afk foraging take the time to petition anyway?

/petition I left my army of forage bots afk for the day and when I came home from work I found they were dead cuz this guy trained me.


I did like the tentonhammer link above, particularly this tidibt:

"3rd party programs use outside help to do almost anything a player could do while they were actually at the keyboard, only the player doesn't need to be there. Gain levels while you are at work!! Don't like the tedium of tradeskilling? Use a trades bot to do the work for you! It's scary how often these are used, and how many people don't see anything really wrong with them. If a coin farmer and seller uses one, players flip out and demand justice, however, I cannot even count how many legit players I have known that have used 3rd party programs in game to help themselves along."

AFK foraging has become one of these "acceptable" exploits.

And, as is most cases of exploit in the game, more often than not you'll find the player base acts to eliminate the offenders. In recent years I've seen a number of players booted from guilds for merely a mistell of a macro command into a public channel. Ooooppsie! /guildremove buh bye ~

Rules not enforced aren't rules at all. Regardless of how the EULA reads.

My reply is very simple if you find them then petition them if you attempt to engage them in conversation the get no reply over an extended period of time /report your efforts also if you offer them trades do so and leave the window open for an extended period of time as well. All this will be recorded in logs and the "GM"'s or more precisely the CSR people have access to the logs from any server any time of day or night. This will show them just foraging and dropping items in a clockwork fashion.

Unfortunately for those of you who have trained them it would also show your actions and if they were to petition their deaths you too could face action in one of several forms including warnings being placed on your account to even suspension or banishment.

Think before you act in a rash manner and just do the method I layed out at the beginning of my posting here< not the Quotes...lol>, and you might just curtail these " Dasterdly Offenders"...lol. Though I personally consoder intentional training to be more of an abuse issue as like in your example they were in a ZL entrance to the zone and who ever cameinto the zone also suffered the same fate of attack upon ZI and with lag issues they could even face death and experience loss.

As to forage bots well if they are just bots all they worry about is theri skill and if they get high enough to get forage AA's that allow double forage then loss of level wont bother them as your skill do not diminish. You really have not harmed them.

This is just a word to the wise, to let you know that your actions are also able to be watched.

[Deviator]

i thought i heard somewhere that your AA are only good within like 6 levels... say for instance you got double forage AA then deleved to like level 20, you wouldnt be able to use them. i have never had the opportunity to test this so can anyone confirm?

[Fox the Clever]

Grrrr, AFK foragers! I hate any type of cheater in this game, big or small, and AFK foragers tick me off just as much as dupe hackers, Macroquest warpers, NPC exploiters, and so forth.

Since I routinely take my characters into the ruins of Takish-Hiz and the Elddar Forest in order to gather up ground spawn tradeskill items, I have gotten familiar with the names of my server's AFK foragers. All too often in my travels there, I discover somebody who has been in one of those zones constantly for many days. When I track them down, I invariably find these characters stuck high up on a zone wall or jammed into a room. They, of course, don't respond to any forms of communication, never move, and more often than not are piling up unwanted foraged items at their feet.

Since I managed to discover how the "new and improved" customer service petition form works, my standard action is to provide as much detail about the AFK foragers as possible, complete with attached screenshots showing their location and inventory (the inventory screenshot is to show the foraging machette these cheater characters are often holding). Sad to say, seldom do I ever get results from all of this. Either the reports for AFK foragers are ignored, or the results coming from customer service (which is located in India) are often.....rather bizarre, to say the least. The only time I really get results is when I actually manage to find a GM online and can successfully direct their attention to the AFK forager. I've managed to get rid of two chronic AFK foragers in this manner, and I hope I can add many more to that list.

[Buns]

Im an AFK forager. I have an autofire function on my keypad. I dont use any 3rd party programme. Am i breaking any rules? No, I dont think so (if I am, then SOE need to be a little more specific in writing their rules). If you train me, are you breaking any rules?

[Flehmen]

Hmmm, I thought SOE specifically prohibited anything regarding playing the game AFK as breaking the rules. Sure you can sit there AFK, it's your electricity, but I would think that foraging is "playing" the game.

Anyhow, time to break out the fancy new manual for my keyboard.

Ten.

[Twistagain]

Hmmm, I thought SOE specifically prohibited anything regarding playing the game AFK as breaking the rules. Sure you can sit there AFK, it's your electricity, but I would think that foraging is "playing" the game.

Anyhow, time to break out the fancy new manual for my keyboard.

Ten.

The only official responses I've seen have been a bit vague about exactly what is or isn't allowed. I think the best thing they could do is to update the EULA (with a VERY noticable alert) to specify their exact stance on programmable devices (keyboards, mice, controllers, etc.) They also need to be very specific on what "AFK" means if it is any part of the equation.

For instance, is autoforaging with a programmable keyboard fine if you are actually sitting there watching it? What percentage of the time do you need to actually be staring at the screen? Can you watch a movie in the same room at the time?

Just saying "No AFK macroing is allowed" is not sufficient without defining "AFK". Yes, I know it seems a rather trivial distinction, but consider this: a wizard goes AFK for 10 minutes to let the dogs out. In that time, he gains 20% of an AA. Isn't that against the rules? He's gaining XP while AFK. Is there a certain length of time from the time you leave the keyboard where you wouldn't actually be "AFK"?

My personal view is that I don't have a problem with it. The EULA is broken on a regular basis by a lot of people. Most high-end raiding guilds break it daily. They share login information. How many players under 18 actually have their parents read the EULA and agree? What I have a problem with is people who are directly harming others' experience (training, KSing, being profane/rude) and people who are explicitly cheating (using a 3rd party software to dupe items, warp, become immune to damage, or anything else you couldn't actually do without the software.)

Hitting a single key repeatedly to save your fingers/wrists is not, imho, a big deal. More involved macros (using a device, not a cheat program) would tend to be more succeptible to failure (as they cannot react to events, but just continue their sequences by rote.)

[Strokker]

i thought i heard somewhere that your AA are only good within like 6 levels... say for instance you got double forage AA then deleved to like level 20, you wouldnt be able to use them. i have never had the opportunity to test this so can anyone confirm?

You might be right there I have not Sacrificed my druid down that far.../grin. I just cant help it I get in these necromancer moods and I just gotta kill something and hey I cant seem to find others to sac so I sac my own...lol

But back on topic though, I personally think there is nothing wrong with Autoforaging and as has been mentioned earlier the Rangers used a small program to autofire before it becam a game feature...who knows maybe autoforage will to some day.