Why all the limitations?

[Taushar]

As a active, and addictive, tradeskiller, I have come to accept many things SoE have thrown at us. Many things were made to make it easier for us tradeskillers, such as new UI, collapsible containers, etc.

However, I just don't understand why putting all the limitation when you have worked so hard to get to where you are. Let me give you some examples:

1. The raised the tradeskills to 300, which is great. I collect a lot of combines to advance to 300 then two things happen. First, the combines above 250 gets nerfed so you are now many time less likely to skill up on same combines as before and the Solstice Robe and Velious tailoring gets lowered making it ineffective way to skill up. Never mind all the Gem Studded Chains I have saved up. It just deflated my enthusiasm for the tradeskills.

2. Old days, higher the stats I had, better chance I had for a skill up. There was no limit. Now, with all the AAs and buffs, I can get my main stats I need, like Wisdom or Strength to above 400. What happens? Any stats above 400 is wasted. I worked hard for those AAs and armors so I can sacrifice other things to get Wisdom to above 400 and all for naught. Why allow stats to get so high when they don't mean much?

3. Worked hard to get my glove from VT to 15% and working towards 300 in smithing. I am effectively about 330 in smithing. I worked hard to get where I can make some good DoN cultural armor for guildies and friends. I hope to be above 340 eventually effectively in smithing. Does it matter? Nope. The DoN cultural armor has top ceiling of 70% success, I believe. Why work so hard to get up on skills when it doesn't count? Again, wasted time and efforts in many ways.

I am sure there are many other examples I am forgetting. What I want to know is why the achievable goals available when they are ineffective? What frustrates me is that I have spent a lot of time and effort getting there then finding out that all my efforts were wasted. I don't mind the mind numbing farming or combining, please don't let me waste time not knowing it will be obsolete later. I guess I just got frustrated lately by slow progress in tradeskills and had to vent.

Taushar

[Qaladar Bragollach]

2. Old days, higher the stats I had, better chance I had for a skill up. There was no limit. Now, with all the AAs and buffs, I can get my main stats I need, like Wisdom or Strength to above 400. What happens? Any stats above 400 is wasted. I worked hard for those AAs and armors so I can sacrifice other things to get Wisdom to above 400 and all for naught. Why allow stats to get so high when they don't mean much?

For the second time I'm telling you that this is not universally true. It only applies to difficulty 1 skills or diff 2 skills with no alternate stat... so research, tinkering, and smithing (and poison making I think also). In tailoring, you willl improve in chance of skillup up to 415 int/wis. For JC, pottery, baking, brewing, and fletching (and alchemy I think) you cannot have high enough int/wis to cap out skillup chances.

[Taushar]

For the second time I'm telling you that this is not universally true. It only applies to difficulty 1 skills or diff 2 skills with no alternate stat... so research, tinkering, and smithing (and poison making I think also). In tailoring, you willl improve in chance of skillup up to 415 int/wis. For JC, pottery, baking, brewing, and fletching (and alchemy I think) you cannot have high enough int/wis to cap out skillup chances.

Hold one sec. you are saying skills with no alternate stats but Smithing has STR as alternate stats. I believe poisonmaking has DEX as alternate stats. So, now you completely confused me. So far what I have read from you in the past, I am still confused. Maybe if you can explain in more detail with right facts, I can understand it better? Thanks.

Taushar

[Qaladar Bragollach]

My bad I meant diff 2 skills with an alternate stat.

The formula for determining a skillup is in 2 parts. One part you have no control over... its straight randomness compared to your current skill and the trivial point of the item.

The part that you DO have control over looks like this for skills with an alterntate stat.

Stat/Difficulty factor/X where X is 1 if the combine was a success and 2 if it was a failure. The answer is a %, so for a diff 2 skill, even on a fail at worst you are looking at Stat/4. Thus at 400 stat you have 100% chance of passing this part of the formula and thus maximise your chance of skillup.

Thus 400 stat will give you max chance of success on smithing, research, and poison making (that I know of... I don't recall the diff factors of alchemy or tinkering)

For skills with no alternate stat, the formula changes slightly... it is

(Stat - 15)/Difficulty factor/X

Thus you need 415 stat to maximise chance of skillup at tailoring.

For higher difficulty factor skills, the formula explodes. For example, you would need 615 stat to maximise chance of skillup on Diff 3 skills with no alt stat (pottery, baking, and brewing IIRC), and you'd need a whopping 815 stat to maximise chance of skillup on JC (diff 4, no alt stat). You can't reach these marks, so more is always better.

Of course, this is worst case scenario... assuming a failure. At 415 you maximise chance of skillup on all tradeskills IF you succeed at the combine. Since you succeed MOST of the time (assuming you aren't going way above your skill) the differences are small once you hit 415. However it is misleading to say that you gain nothing for stats above that point.

[Winenose]

Nice post http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=22246 about it.

Difference from Qaladars explanation is that it's not "a stat", it's specific and well, everything is explained in the linked post.

[Angelsyn]

1) Yeah, it happens. Given the quality of GM gear, I'm of the opinion that the MCS trivial should of been lowered when Solstice Robes were. Velious Furs still have high trivials, btw, and I've personally gotten a few points making various items. Unfortunately, both the characters I actually play are maxed out on Tribute all the time now, so I have huge piles of fur cloaks laying around.

P.S. They will be addressing the Master & GM level drops issues soon.

2) For some (easier) skills... yeah, having more than 400-ish stats is meaningless. For other skills (as explained in the previous posts), they're still important.

3) Elemental-level and Old-Cultural Smithing trivials at 335, and does not have a maximum success rate. Also, for other-than-GM items (and Inlays, I believe... but I'm not sure on those), having higher skill and Masteries makes failures even less likely. Thus, I would personally love to have a +15% Smithing item (and the +10% Tailoring item too!).

[Twistagain]

2) For some (easier) skills... yeah, having more than 400-ish stats is meaningless. For other skills (as explained in the previous posts), they're still important.

3) Elemental-level and Old-Cultural Smithing trivials at 335, and does not have a maximum success rate. Also, for other-than-GM items (and Inlays, I believe... but I'm not sure on those), having higher skill and Masteries makes failures even less likely. Thus, I would personally love to have a +15% Smithing item (and the +10% Tailoring item too!).

Trivial 335 stuff is maxxed (success rate-wise) at 95% starting at 295 modified skill (or 281 with a geerlok.) Something would have to trivial over 362 (and not have a max success rate) for Mastery to do anything if you have 300 skill and a geerlok.

As for the stats +400 mattering...very little. The following calculations represent the AVERAGE number of combines needed based on a 95% success rate (near-trivial) item (no artificial min-skillup items) from 250-300. The first number is at 400 int/wis (or secondary stat), the second is at 1000 (an impossibility):

For Y=2, with secondary skill: 1182, 1182 (0% savings)
For Y=3, with secondary skill: 1202, 1182 (1.7%)
For Y=4, with secondary skill: 1212, 1182 (2.5%)
For Y=2, without secondary skill: 1184, 1182 (.2%)
For Y=3, without secondary skill: 1203, 1182 (1.7%)
For Y=4, without secondary skill: 1259, 1182 (6.1%)

So, for Jewelcrafting and Pottery...it might be worth the effort. Otherwise, I'd say not. /shrug

[Nolrog]

The following calculations represent the AVERAGE number of combines needed based on a 95% success rate (near-trivial) item (no artificial min-skillup items) from 250-300. The first number is at 400 int/wis (or secondary stat), the second is at 1000 (an impossibility):

For Y=2, with secondary skill: 1182, 1182 (0% savings)
For Y=3, with secondary skill: 1202, 1182 (1.7%)
For Y=4, with secondary skill: 1212, 1182 (2.5%)
For Y=2, without secondary skill: 1184, 1182 (.2%)
For Y=3, without secondary skill: 1203, 1182 (1.7%)
For Y=4, without secondary skill: 1259, 1182 (6.1%)

Stats may not matter over a certain point (or matter little.) But what is that point? One could argue that it's around 400, for most, and it doesn't matter much above that. However, what about skills below that?

I don't know how complicated these are for you to run (I'm assuming you have some kind of program that generates them for you quickly and easily, otherwise, I wouldn't ask.) Would be possible to run the comparison between 255 (max pre 61) and say 305 (max at 70), and then at say 350 and then 400 (which is obviously already done)

[Prexis]

3) Elemental-level and Old-Cultural Smithing trivials at 335, and does not have a maximum success rate. Also, for other-than-GM items (and Inlays, I believe... but I'm not sure on those), having higher skill and Masteries makes failures even less likely. Thus, I would personally love to have a +15% Smithing item (and the +10% Tailoring item too!).

The Shears from Ahkeva are 15% to tailoring. I'm not aware of a 10% item.