am i missing something here?

[Bauhb]

okay, these new slot 12 augs... sound great on first glance, right?

where can they fit? cultural armor, that's it

that'd be fine and dandy, except that it seems like these augs (especially the last blood augs) are only going to be available to high-end raiders.

so I'm going to raid DS and blood for incredibly hard-to-make augs, pay out the yin-yang for GM cultural armor and augs, and be unable to use my old type 8 aug just to get a minor (or possibly nonexistent) upgrade?

unless there is new (and good) armor with slot 8 + slot 12, I'm really questioning the risk vs reward, as well as whether or not these augs are even worth the time invested.

please, if I'm missing something, somebody please fill me in.

[Angelsyn]

Well, first of all, you should have plenty of places to put your type-8 Augs.

Second of all, the new type-12 Augs can go in any piece of Cultural.

So, you might only want to get a single Cultural Bracer, or Boots, or whichever piece.

The part that bothers me is from the entirely opposite end.

I can make GM armour and I will soon be wearing GM armour... but the odds of me ever seeing one of the stones used in making a type-12 Aug are pretty dranned slim.

In addition, the lower quality (Chronal & Bazu?) Augs are completely not worth the bother for Raiders, yet still out of reach for non-raiders. Given the costs and difficulty of the Almalgamator, it's even more unlikely that any of these Augs will be ever within my reach.

[Bauhb]

Well, first of all, you should have plenty of places to put your type-8 Augs.

That's only part of the problem. I acknowledge that very few people are going to have all their type-8 aug slots filled. Regardless, making top-end gear that is outmoding type-8 augs is not a good trend to start imo.

Second of all, the new type-12 Augs can go in any piece of Cultural.

So, you might only want to get a single Cultural Bracer, or Boots, or whichever piece.

Yes, but the problem is that after getting GM cultural armor, the GM symbol, AND the **SMURF** last blood aug, I'm not sure if the final product is worthy of being called an upgrade.

Take a decent chest slot: this one is from kessdona.

Supple White Tunic
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHEST
AC: 49
DEX: +18 STA: +23 WIS: +17 AGI: +22
HP: +285 MANA: +270 ENDUR: +270 SV FIRE: +20
SV DISEASE: +15 SV MAGIC: +20 SV POISON: +15
Regeneration: +5
Avoidance: 20 Shielding: +2% Spell shield: +4%
Recommended level of 70.
Required level of 70.
Focus Effect: Pyrilen Vengeance
WT: 2.5 Size: LARGE
Class: DRU
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8

Taking one anguish aug, say a petrified girplan heart (90 HP/mana/endurance, 3% DoT shielding), and you get a 375/360 hp/mana chest with some very nice stats.

-------------------------

Now, to use a last blood aug, I need something that can hold it. AFAIK right now, the only armor that will hold it is cultural.

So I have to use something along the lines of:

Grandmaster's Longstrider Cuirass
MAGIC ITEM ATTUNEABLE
Slot: CHEST
AC: 50
DEX: +3 STA: +6 WIS: +6 AGI: +6 HP: +40 MANA: +40 ENDUR: +40
SV FIRE: +4 SV DISEASE: +4 SV COLD: +4 SV MAGIC: +3 SV POISON: +4
Slot 1, type 7
Slot 2, type 11
Slot 2, type 12

Filling out the aug slots is easy enough. I pick a last blood aug (preferably with a good focus), my relevant GM cultural symbol, and a +50 hp DoN aug for a couple hundred crystals.

Last Blood of the Seafarer
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE AUGMENTATION
Augmentation type: 12
Slot: HEAD ARMS WRIST HANDS CHEST LEGS FEET
AC: 45
STR: +7 DEX: +7 STA: +7 CHA: +7 WIS: +7 INT: +7 AGI: +7 HP: +210 MANA: +210 ENDUR: +210
SV FIRE: +16 SV DISEASE: +16 SV COLD: +15 SV MAGIC: +15 SV POISON: +15
Spell Shield: +2% Avoidance: +9 Stun Resist: +2% DoT Shielding: +2% Regeneration: +2 Mana Regeneration: +1 Damage Shield: +1
Required level of 70.
Focus: Alacrity of the Ikaav

Grandmaster's Chest Symbol of Storms
AUGMENTATION ATTUNEABLE
Augmentation type: 11
Slot: CHEST
This item can be used in tradeskills.
STR: +13 DEX: +12 STA: +13 CHA: +12 WIS: +13 INT: +13 AGI: +12 HP: +105 MANA: +105 ENDUR: +105
SV FIRE: +4 SV DISEASE: +4 SV COLD: +4 SV MAGIC: +19 SV POISON: +4
Mana Regeneration: +2 Damage Shield: +2

Ancient Life Root Stone
MAGIC ITEM NO TRADE AUGMENTATION
Augmentation Type: 7, 8
WT: 0.0 Size: TINY
HP: +50

The final result is:

Grandmaster's Longstrider Cuirass (Augmented)
AC: 95
Focus Effect: Alacrity of the Ikaav (30% beneficial spell haste/max lvl 70)
STR +20 DEX +22 STA +26 INT +20 WIS +26 CHA +19 HP +395 MANA +355
SV FIRE +24 SV COLD +23 SV MAGIC +37 SV POISON +23 SV DISEASE +24
Spell Shield +2% Avoidance +9 Stun Resist +2% DoT Shielding +2% Regeneration +2 Mana Regeneration +3 Damage Shield +3
Slot 1, type 7: Ancient Life Root Stone
Slot 2, type 11: Grandmaster's Chest Symbol of Storms
Slot 2, type 12: Last Blood of the Seafarer

Compared to:

Supple White Tunic (Augmented)
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHEST
AC: 49
DEX: +18 STA: +23 WIS: +17 AGI: +22
HP: +375 MANA: +360 ENDUR: +270 SV FIRE: +20
SV DISEASE: +15 SV MAGIC: +20 SV POISON: +15
Regeneration: +5
Avoidance: 20 Shielding: +2% Spell shield: +4% Dot Shielding +3%
Recommended level of 70.
Required level of 70.
Focus Effect: Pyrilen Vengeance
WT: 2.5 Size: LARGE
Class: DRU
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8: Petrified Girplan Heart

15 hp upgrade and 5 less mana. The AC would be nice if I was a plate class, but the differences between CoA/DoN armor and Last Blood armor isn't very great either.

The overall effects aren't very different. The focus effects are somewhat interchangable.

One is gotten through raiding a semi-difficult dragon and raiding CoA minis. The other is gotten through raiding the endgame content of the new expansion and by doing a metric ton of tradeskills, and the majority of the combines have both rare and expensive combines.

It's live Qvic armor all over again, just on meth now, and for an upgrade that really isn't.

The part that bothers me is from the entirely opposite end.

I can make GM armour and I will soon be wearing GM armour... but the odds of me ever seeing one of the stones used in making a type-12 Aug are pretty dranned slim.

In addition, the lower quality (Chronal & Bazu?) Augs are completely not worth the bother for Raiders, yet still out of reach for non-raiders. Given the costs and difficulty of the Almalgamator, it's even more unlikely that any of these Augs will be ever within my reach.

And by the time they are in your reach, they're not worth it. These augs just seem like a huge bust to me.

[Sharrien]

Out of reach for those who would use them, too much trouble for those who can use them. Pretty much summarizes DoD augs from what I've read.

Oh, and removing the pet focus tablet.....heartbreaking.

[Abazagaroth]

Let us tanks loot the aug parts then on raids =P

Believe me, I'm not the only tank that would use one of those augs in a piece of cultural in a heartbeat. The ac advantage of GM armor + ac aug + GM symbol + last blood aug versus raid gear makes it a very worthwhile upgrade for many tanks.

[Angelsyn]

Again, you were comparing the Chest piece.

Try comparing a Wrist, Feet or Arms piece instead (for a Caster). I think you'll be very pleased with the result.

P.S. The Saves on the Cultural totally blow away the saves on the Supple White Tunic.

[thrashette]

huh?

It's live Qvic armor all over again, just on meth now, and for an upgrade that really isn't.

That would onlly make sense if Qvic armor weren't the best itemized thing in the whole game.

Qvic armors are the -only- non-endgame set that is a near-certain upgrade to the people who can get it. Plus, 5 of the 8 pieces spawn at a useful rate where it doesn't take 50 people to get them.

Yeah, Uqua sucks. However, it -CAN- be done by Time geared people and the Qvic armor is a balanced upgrade to those people.

These augs are better compared to Tier 1 OOW armors. He who can kill the rare item mob, needs not the armors.

Try comparing a Wrist, Feet or Arms piece instead (for a Caster)

Until Sony fixes the effects on the base caster pieces, they will remain useless. Mana regen +3, Damage Shield: +3 just doesn't cut it when you get screwed on hitpoints, resists and stats for not wearing metal.

[Bauhb]

That would onlly make sense if Qvic armor weren't the best itemized thing in the whole game.

I was referring to the cost of materials more than anything else. Finding meldstones + the 10.5k component is nothing compared to the cost and effort required to make Last Blood-usable armor. GM armor requires 1-3 metallic drake scales or glossy drake hides, and the symbols need another... gets very expensive right there, not counting the difficulty in getting the last blood aug made.

Considering how cultural armor is still grossly unbalanced for some classes, this will add more problems...

Try comparing a Wrist, Feet or Arms piece instead (for a Caster). I think you'll be very pleased with the result.

Okay, I made an alt profile on magelo to do a quick and dirty compare.

Grandmaster's Longstrider Armband (Augmented)
MAGIC ITEM NO DROP
Slot: WRIST
AC: 61
STR: +18 DEX: +19 STA: +23 CHA: +16
WIS: +23 INT: +18 AGI: +21 HP: +375
MANA: +325 ENDUR: +325 SV FIRE: +22 SV DISEASE: +22
SV COLD: +21 SV MAGIC: +32 SV POISON: +21
Attack: +40
Regeneration: +2
Mana regeneration: +1
Damage shield: +1
Accuracy: +7% Shielding: +2% Stun resist: +2% Dot shielding: +2%
Recommended level of 70.
Required level of 70.
Focus Effect: Improved Parry III
WT: 1.1 Size: MEDIUM
Class: DRU
Race: HFL
Slot 1, type 7: Ancient Life Root Stone
Slot 2, type 11: Grandmaster's Wrist Symbol of Storms
Slot 3, type 12: Last Blood of the Duelist

Compared to what I'm currently wearing:

Everspring Wristband of the Tangled Briars (Augmented)
MAGIC ITEM NO DROP
Slot: WRIST
AC: 29
STA: +40 WIS: +30 AGI: +40 HP: +375
MANA: +300 SV DISEASE: +25 SV COLD: +35 SV MAGIC: +15
SV POISON: +25
Regeneration: +7
Mana regeneration: +3
Avoidance: 10 Spell shield: +3% Dot shielding: +3%
Required level of 70.
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: DRU
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8: Jewel of Focus

IMO it's close enough to be nearly identical.

As you said, the saves are nice... but by this point in the game your resist average is going to be somewhere around 350-400, which means with bard song and resist buffs you'll be maxed out on resists anyways.

Believe me, I'm not the only tank that would use one of those augs in a piece of cultural in a heartbeat. The ac advantage of GM armor + ac aug + GM symbol + last blood aug versus raid gear makes it a very worthwhile upgrade for many tanks.

First off, last blood (unless I'm mistaken) IS raid gear. It drops in the demi-plane of blood, which is endgame content.

That said, I threw a couple more together...

Gladiator's Plate Chestguard of War (Augmented)
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHEST
AC: 130
STR: +30 DEX: +25 STA: +30 CHA: +25
AGI: +25 HP: +360 ENDUR: +315 SV FIRE: +30
SV DISEASE: +35 SV MAGIC: +30 SV POISON: +30
Attack: +50
Regeneration: +10
Avoidance: 10 Combat effects: 12 Shielding: +6%
Required level of 70.
Effect: Deafening Strike (Worn)
Effect: Guardian's Bravery (Casting Time: 0.8)
WT: 15.0 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 8: Stone of Planar Protection

versus

Grandmaster's Snowborn Cuirass (Augmented)
MAGIC ITEM NO DROP
Slot: CHEST
AC: 144
STR: +26 DEX: +19 STA: +26 CHA: +19
WIS: +25 INT: +24 AGI: +22 HP: +405
MANA: +355 ENDUR: +355 SV FIRE: +23 SV DISEASE: +29
SV COLD: +28 SV MAGIC: +25 SV POISON: +22
Attack: +25
Regeneration: +2
Mana regeneration: +2
Damage shield: +3
Accuracy: +7% Shielding: +2% Stun resist: +2% Dot shielding: +2%
Recommended level of 70.
Required level of 70.
Focus Effect: Cleave V
WT: 5.1 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR
Race: BAR
Slot 1, type 7: Ancient Life Root Stone
Slot 2, type 11: Grandmaster's Chest Symbol of the Warmonger
Slot 3, type 12: Last Blood of the Warchief

IMO it's pretty darn close, and it shouldn't be. For a guild on this level, AMV is one of the easier Anguish bosses.

Demi-Plane of Blood is ideally supposed to be more difficult than CoA, and therefore should have better loot. The improvement here, if it really exists, is negligible. I see people stressing a ton over these augs, and for the life of me I can't understand why.

[Winenose]

The thing is that avialability of last blood augs is going to be very low. The number of cultural / last blood pieces you wear is at maximum the number of top end slot 7 augs you have already. There's three so far - BiC, Disc of the Dragon Kind (and Ore of the Nest). These all also fit to slot 8 and it's safe to assume these augs are already in use.

So, we can drop the slots 7 and 8 from these armors assuming players use their best slot 7 augs avialable.

Leaves us with this:
Grandmaster's Snowborn Cuirass (Augmented)
AC: 144
HP: +355 MANA: +355 ENDUR: +355
SV FIRE: +23 SV DISEASE: +29 SV COLD: +28 SV MAGIC: +25 SV POISON: +22
Attack: +25
Regeneration: +2
Mana regeneration: +2
Damage shield: +3
Accuracy: +7% Shielding: +2% Stun resist: +2% Dot shielding: +2%
Focus Effect: Cleave V
Slot 1, type 7: empty
Slot 2, type 11: Grandmaster's Chest Symbol of the Warmonger
Slot 3, type 12: Last Blood of the Warchief

versus

Gladiator's Plate Chestguard of War
AC: 130
HP: +360 ENDUR: +315
SV FIRE: +30 SV DISEASE: +35 SV MAGIC: +30 SV POISON: +30
Attack: +50
Regeneration: +10
Avoidance: 10 Combat effects: 12 Shielding: +6%
Effect: Deafening Strike (Worn)
Effect: Guardian's Bravery (Casting Time: 0.8)
Slot 1, type 8: empty


So, last blood has 14 more AC, 40 END, 2 total resist, 2% dot shielding and cleave 5
versus
5 HP, 6% shielding and 10 avoidance and focus/clicky effects.

It comes down to personal preference and avialability of the effects on other pieces you have.

For casters, the DoD augments make it "easier" to obtain and keep some focus effects that are hard to find / fit otherwise.

In conclusion, the augs are avialable to people who can and will make these and find uses / places for these. Cost doesn't play much of a role there.

Anything under Bazu level, if the stones exist at all, is not going to be made, unless the AAAA isn't consumed by the lower two tiers. Just my opinion of course.

[Caducus]

Discordant stones will probably get made. Why? Because the cost on them will be comparable to some of the OOW augs already on the market (including the AAAA).

In fact, since the components drop in very well defined places (unlike scoriae and slugworms), the AAAAs can be more easily farmed by the casual player. The object then becomes finding the people to do combines and/or subcombines (unless of course, you can do em all yourself).

A 10ac 120hp/mana with a few modifiers and Cleave V or Ferocity V (or whichever effect you choose to add to it) aug is well worth the effort, especially given the number of non-raiders who are already in cultural (whether it be GM or Master, though if they're buying an AAAA, they're probably in GM).

Beats paying a couple hundred thousand plat for a Radiant XXX of Pure XXX (which only go to III, not V), or spending ages in WoS/MPG/Sewers etc farming the Scoriae (which is scarce in the bazaar these days on Prexus, don't know about other servers).

I think once people figure out where the discordant stones drop, you'll see them getting used up at least as much as Bazu stones. I know I'd use up some of my AAAAs on them.

[Wyvernwill]

I would gladly use a Discordant stone without much worry even if an AAAA was eaten in the combine. It's one of those choice things. It gives you another option on what to do gear wise, and in this case, it allows you a lot of choices on customization.

Given that the best augs for the chest and legs that are easily obtainable for slot 12 would be the don ones that are 40hps/mana/end +5 all svs, putting in a 120 +7all svs that has other bonuses on top is a rather good deal... and these augs are considerably better than the OoW ones.

It's all about preference... neither side is right nor wrong. To some, it's a waste of time... to others, it's a great bonus.

[Phantron]

I think people are also forgetting that the anyone can use last blood augs and 45 AC is higher than most silk/leather anguish armor AC by itself. While not of huge use to such classes, you're basically getting something for free because itemization says you'll never have a 61 AC wrist for a druid until you've armor with about 600 HP on them (anguish being 29/300).

Comparing to the current set of archtype armor found in DS, the last blood armor turns out just about the same as the armor dropped in DS and seems to have better random effects, which make sense since those are dropped in the same zone. The bazu armor are comparable to Anguish drop especially given the ability to get whatever focus you need. Also like any set of armor not all slots are created equal. BP, leg, arms, and wrist are probably the better pieces out of Anguish armor. Conversely gloves, helm, and boots aren't too hot especially if you're not hurting for the focus/haste (or in the case of pure melee, your gloves don't even get a focus).

Like it was mentioned earlier, there's no point to put in some worthless type 7aug to illustrate the difference. If you can get a Bazu Stone you can get an Ore of the Nest or Disc of the Dragon Kind and really should be able to get a BiC aug. On the other hand, if Discordant Stone is the best you can manage then you don't have any really uber type 8 slots to use anyway so again there's not a big difference between a type 7 and a type 8 slot.