"any GM *insert tradeskill here* in bazaar?"

[Heynanni]

First off I'll admit that I'm a bazaar addict, and notoriously curious. Background info: I'm lucky that my hubby's account is the trader and my account is the buyer, so my little 24monk in Sagacious armour is the char that I respond on.
When I see those words in bazaar, most of the time I reply out of curiousity. I have post 250 skill in the big tradeskills- tailoring, smithing, and brewing, so I can make what they want.
My rant? When a) they're asking for stuff for free b) they want a better price than bazaar price for no reason, or better yet ask me to beat my own husband's price! (They don't know its my husband, and its totally different if they give me components I want)
Today though took the cake, someone wanted a brewer. I respond and they say "I need root beer, fizzy odus juice, orange juice, and ranger's surefall something or other" Okay not that big a deal yet, but then I ask for the components and he's just like "well I don't have any of them, don't brewers stock that stuff?" ARGH That's strike 1.
Strike 2 is when I ask him to go to eqtraders and get all the components and then I'll do the combines. He doesn't respond for 15mins! Of course by then I've given up on him and I go back to other computer stuff, to bring back up EQ and find that he's been harassing me in /ooc tells and in person! Hello, I'm not going to stay at the keyboard when you don't respond to my tells!
My curiosity is almost dead by now, very few people in bazaar are decent and reasonable. Whew! Thank you for letting me rant.

[Wyvernwill]

A lot of people are just strange. Back in the day, I use to keep a lot of various stacks of all sorts of things and made items on order as people wanted it. (mainly in East Commons where the bazaar use to be). All I did was auction that, for example, I was selling Black Panther, Haze Panther, Arcylia Studded and Reinforced armors to order. People sent me tells, I made the items, plat changed hands and I kept on auctioning.

Now days with the sheer cruddy drop rates of items that are so slow (I have been spending 15 hours farming constantly chain killing 10 mobs and have gotten 3 Crushed diamond Dusts.). Things like that are outrageous and I hate to say it... stupid. I find it funny how the push is for people tradeskillers to be able to make better stuff that's a bit more rare, but at this rate, it just takes forever. The sheer desparity between Crushed Diamond Dust and Purescale Ore drop rates is almost commical. Why would the master's level stuff be worth substantially more in the bazaar than the GM stuff? That makes no sense at all.

The reason behind the derailing rant. The reason I am farming CDD is simply because someone wanted a full suit of armor + symbols of master level stuff. I am finally down to needing 3 more CDD to be done with this tedious task.

[Leana]

Heynanni,

I do a lot of business in the bazaar, and I'd say that most of the people in the bazaar, by far, are decent and reasonable. I've met a few people that tried to convince me to cut them a special deal, but most of the people there are definitely easy to trade with. I'd say that if you met many that are unsavory, it's your bad luck.



Wynvernwill,

Comparing crushed diamond dust to purescale ore is not fair. The limiting factor on making grandmaster armor is drake scales, drake hides, and spider silk, none of which are very common. The only reason they are more obtainable is that more people hunt in DON than Luclin. That is changing too. Since the release of DOD and the introduction of the new pottery recipees, drake scales and hides have evaporated from the bazaar. The price on our server shot up from 20k to 40k. I may just put my scales and hides back on the market, since I'll make more money from selling them directly than making items with them.

If you want to compare purescale ore to an equivalent item in the recipee, try shissar scales. Last time I checked, there were 50+ of them and they were selling for 500pp.

Leana Soulwarden
Blacksmith
Inevitable Storm
The Seventh Hammer

[Wyvernwill]

Actually, I am comparing the like and related items, so if you wanted to compare shissar scales to purescale ore, it wouldn't be a like comparison as metallic drake scales would be the equivalent of shissar scales.

All things considered, I even get Metallic Drake Scales faster than I get Crushed Diamond Dusts. Way faster. Accursed Nest Missions drop scales fairly frequently, along with Drake Hides and Silks. The sad part is I can kill about 2-3 respawns of Suits in Wakening Lands in the time it takes me to get 1-2 GDH or MDS in Nest. I average about 1 CDD per 5 hours. There is a huge discrepancy in the drop rates and that is the point I am trying to make.

[Zacatac]

I often ignore those shouts/oocs. Half the time it ends up being somebody who has no clue on what they are asking, or how difficult it is. If I have it, it is for sale on my bazaar mule. If I don't have it, I'm probably not going to go out and hunt for it, so be prepared to bring me the components.

Example #1, I have the "Master Smith" title on my name. Somebody sees that and then asks me if I do any DoN armors. And then they ask me if I can make a (insert any other race but high elf here) BP for them. Since they don't know they armor is cultural, you can bet they don't know the receipe or anything else about how to make it.

Example #2, "Can you make GM high elf DoN armor?". Yes. "How much for a full suit?" Umm, more than you could possibly imagine is my likely price.

I remember long ago having a big arguement with another player, back in the Velious days, who wanted a full set of Haze Panther armor. I informed him that no amount of money in the world would make me try to hunt haze panthers for days on end trying to make a full suit (remember, this was back in the 250 cap, and trivial of 300+ days) for somebody.

Sometimes people need to know a bit more about the request they are making. But usally they just saw some item linked somewhere, and thought OHHH, I WANT ONE!

Another issue, although rare, is that people expect to have 300+ skill (with mod) AND all Mastery AAs, AND all Salvages AAs. I actually had somebody turn me down with my 315 skill and mastery-3, because I only have Salvage-1.

[Heynanni]

Zacatac Grats on having those AAs as it is! My hubby is a 70 high elf wizzie with 262AAs and he REFUSES to get tradeskill AAs until his crit and damage output is as high as he can get it, which will take a while. Poor Nanni only has 47AAs and Taanan Crafting Mastery was enough for her! No one oddly enough asks about AAs in my inquiries thankfully.
I feel your pain about the "full set" quotes. Most often its for a full set of magnetic, in which case some parts aren't plate wearable (belt) and people don't want to hear it- they want the whole set for the cost of one full set of magnetized pieces! umm hello, ever hear of patch plates? "I could get it cheaper paying bazaar prices!" If you can good luck and do it
On another note, I love DoN cultural so much I skilled my little monk up in tailoring just so she could make her own Journeyman's Sagacious, and now I want to do the same for my Dwarf Beserker, but I gotta get him to 15 first. Its kinda like a right of passage to be honored enough to be one of my toons!

[Dutchy]

.

I love doing tradeskill combines, but I'm pretty picky on wether or not I will respond on request for a GM-whatever, had some bad experiences in the past as well.
What I normally keep as my guidelines when people are /ooc-ing for a GM tradeskiller:
-Brewing and Baking requests are my big no-no, I usually buy my own meals and drinks eventhough I could make them. Time it consumes and the little pp it makes just isn't worth it to me.
-If people are looking to hire a tradeskiller for a specific type of armor I will check the bazaar listings first, if what they are looking for is for sale at a decent price... I won't respond.
-I don't farm components unless its for my own skill ups. The only combines I will do is when people have at least all the droppable components for the combine together. If people respond negative to that, I usually take the time to explain that by sitting on my butt afk in trader I make X amount of pp per hour, and I'd expect at least more than that when I actually have to go out do stuff. So far no one has been willing to compensate for my farming time so I get to keep being lazy

My personal worst case scenario:
Someone in the bazaar is looking for a GM smith to combine 2 black gold inlays and they claim they have the components gathered. So you figure it will be a fast combine and agree with him to meet him in PoK on your tradeskillchar. You end up waiting for 45 minutes while they try to figure out where they left it, to get the responce after that they think they may have sold the discordant scoriaes in the bazaar earlier and don't need a combine after all......

I normally respond though if people actually /ooc what they are looking to have made and state they have the components gathered, or if its very high end trivials (DoN GM gear etc) for which I have the components in stock.

Full GM set orders do happen hehe, funny though last time I placed an order for a set of GM gear for an alt that smith also responded with: A full set with all the GM symbols? probably more than you can afford. 5 minutes later he'd done the math and a week later I got the GM gear for my war I'd been looking for for months =)

[Snibbly]

I feel your pain.

I answered somebody looking for a high skill tinkerer one time, and considering I'm #3 on the server according to eqrankings, they weren't likely to find another that could do what the probably wanted soon. Went something like this:

Me - "I have x skill, modified, what is it you want me to make"
Him - "What do you mean modified" (Should've told him sorry right there, but I was feeling good that day)
M - <Insert explanation of how geerloks work>
H -"I still don't get it."
M -"Bah, what is it you want made? I'll tell you my chance of success based one what you want made."
H - "Well, what can you make?"
M - /who idiot, level 20 gnome warrior. I'm still feeling good at this point, so I continue.
M - "Well, it's mostly stuff like Stalking Probes, Collapsed containers, etc" with short explanations about what these are.
H - "What about armor? I want armor."
M - "I can make DoN cultural armor, plus some various other stuff"
H - "Cool, how much?"
M - I go through, look up the price, send him a tell of -my cost- assuming no failures, then I mention to him that this stuff is below my trivial (it was journeyman's level stuff) so I would expect a donation on top of that.
H - "Holy ****, are you kidding me? You're just trying to rip me off, blah blah blah blah blah" then goes off in tells and ooc trying to badmouth me about being a greedy bastard who's trying to rip off noobs, etc etc.

That little encounter with him just set me off so bad. I believe he's still the only person to ever grace my ignore list...

[Phantron]

There isn't even a point to try to explain if your price is or is not fair and it doesn't matter if it is or not. That's why we have the bazaar to leave out the unpleasant aspect of trading that'd require communication (unless you enjoy it, then by all means talk).

Though I do wish there's a way to punish people who put overpriced goods that will never sell.

[Dranul]

Though I do wish there's a way to punish people who put overpriced goods that will never sell.

It's called a free economy where people are able to under sell others and thus the overpriced goods never sell.

[Flehmen]

It's called a free economy where people are able to under sell others and thus the overpriced goods never sell.

Except that not everyone is running a business or knows the value of what they are selling. Goods in a free economy cost money, to purchase, to find, to store, to refine... whatever...

Since DoN came out the same guy has been selling pouches of mistletoe powder on the hammer for 5000 pp, he has some undersellers who have some pouches for... gosh... 1825 pp......

This is an item that *I* can get in a half hour(or much less if the RNG is being kind) now that I've leveled a few times. I suck at this game.

Unfortunately, anyone happening across this at random is going to take one look at the baz and set an enormously inflated price.... Welcome to mudflation...

The funny thing is, the armor made from this is barely sellable at 100pp.... and I've found then I only make it by request.

I guess that not selling.... in this market... isn't a punishment... there are just no costs to putting something up for sale. Problem is to solve this without causing problems for items that simply do sell slow at low low prices.

Ten.

[Bumkus]

Since DoN came out the same guy has been selling pouches of mistletoe powder on the hammer for 5000 pp, he has some undersellers who have some pouches for... gosh... 1825 pp......

I admit, I have done this. I periodically go through and double check prices on goods I am selling. Always chuckle when I catch an item I have priced at like 3k, when there are lots of other sellers at 50p

I guess that not selling.... in this market... isn't a punishment... there are just no costs to putting something up for sale. Problem is to solve this without causing problems for items that simply do sell slow at low low prices.

Absolutely agree. The cost of 1 slot out of a hundred on a trader mule is negligable. The question is whether the inevitible inflation that occurs in a zero inventory cost environment is a bad thing. (I think so, but then again, I am not an ecomonist.) I suppose you could limit the number of trader satchels on any one trader, to make each slot more valuable, but this would kill the market in low dollar items, like foods, celestial essences, etc. I would personally like to see a Trader tax based on sum total of goods in inventory. The total would be based of your own resales. Tax could kick in monthly, so if you sell within a month you don't get hit with the tax. I am sure this would be a coding nightmare, but you get the idea.

Any WoW folks on board? How do people like the auction house charge in that game? Is it good or bad for the ecomony?

Oh, and by the way, I would not like to see farmed tradeskill items stack to a hundred, because that would further reduce a trader's carrying cost.

[Wyvernwill]

Hmm... taxes vs dealing with high costs. I'd rather deal with high costs. I dispise WoWs set up on auctioning, I think it's extremely dumb.

Considering I sell things that generally sit on my trader until that random 1 or 2 people come along and want it, I probably would get nailed to the wall, but considering I work in Inlays, Cultural Armor and so forth, that leaves me with a much smaller market.

The old adage rings true that if you want something bad enough, get it yourself. Don't have the flags? Get them. Don't want to pay overpriced prices? Don't. Set up a barter mule or walk around auctioning and for what price you will pay. Bazaar is only a minor part of the problem, because the method prior to the bazaar was far worse.

[Bumkus]

The old adage rings true that if you want something bad enough, get it yourself. Don't have the flags? Get them. Don't want to pay overpriced prices? Don't. Set up a barter mule or walk around auctioning and for what price you will pay. Bazaar is only a minor part of the problem, because the method prior to the bazaar was far worse.

Well you cant deny that the game is scaled to elements that exist in the game today. Developers have to take these elements into consideration as they lay out new play patterns, establish drop rates, etc. Back in "the day" you could farm 20 wyveryn hides a night to take you to 300 tailoring. My only viable paths to 300 today are Velium hound/mastodon/holgresh or Shimmering Ukun Hides for master's level armor. In 2 hours, I might get 2 shimmering hides at lvl66 solo. Lets say it would take me 20 combines per skillup from 265-300. That is an aggressive skillup rate, but it makes the point. So I will need at least 700 hides to max tailoring. at 1 hide per hour, we are looking at 700 hours worth of farming. Is this on par with the time committment required of old school tradeskillers?

[Wyvernwill]

First and foremost... Arctic Wyvern Armor takes you as high now as it did "back in the day". Unless you are speaking of that mystical mistake that happened between the month or so DoN was out and the day they smacked down the trivials as being "back in the day."

Until DoN came out the max for Skills was 250 (252 with mod).

What else you fail to take into consideration is the time in farming Actic Wyvern Armor for example. At lvl 60 I was solo'ing 1 wyvern every 2-3 minutes. Go kill one wyvern, every 2.5 minutes. Tell me how fast you gather Hides. I use to gather in groupings of 200 hides. Then sit down, fish for 200 cod, even with 200 skill, this usually took 2-3 days at 4 hours a shot minimum.

Then go farm Velium. The requirements:
Bricks can not be broken down (That was added after I hit 250)
Weapons can not be turned to bricks (Again, after I hit 250)
Ignore half of crystal caverns orcs as someone else was almost always down there camping them while I was camping other Velium

Oh, and when you go to make the Velium Studs and Bonings. Buy the Coldain Velium Tempers from the merchant in Thurg. If you need 20, buy 100, destroy 80. That puts them at roughly the cost that I bought CVT off of vendors for back in the day, before they even put in the means to make them via Celestial Essences and Coldain Heaters.

I hate to be irritatable about people bringing up tradeskills in the past, but it seems people have forgotten exactly how costly, how hard and how mind numbing they use to be. Things like Solstice Robes, MCS and the likes have made most "tradeskillers" in this game complete slouches as they never remember exactly how hard things were or even if they did, never did them because they could just vendor buy their way to max skill.

So to answer your question... Yeah, that one hide an hour pretty much evens out a bit with the combined time it took to get the combines for the old school stuff.