Totally Disgruntled at SoE on my class Cultural

[Phelis D'Mesticus]

Lvl 70 Beastie, condemned to leather armor and looking at total bankruptcy to make my DoN cultural armor. Even with salvage 3 and TM, its going to be near impossible for me to make my armor without the ...God hate to say it...ASSISSTANCEEE!!! of another tailor who has already reached 300.

I just think that it's total feces that I can master my smithing with little more than 200k plat from 250 by making MCS's and buyin everything directly from merchants, but it's going to take somewhere in the neighborhood of a million plat to get from 262 through to 300 Tailoring

Average prices on my server for Holgresh skinnies is 1-2k. Everything else that would take me there is just as outrageous.

Maybe im wring but i think that the ability/difficulty of getting to a certain level of skill should have a bearing on the trivial of the combine. Reasonable on the Gm Leather would be about 335 or so. Where it is now its just total crapola.

.....and as u know, farming the goods to do the combines isnt really viable either. An hour for 6-8(WAYYY MAX) combines, 3.5-4.5 hours average for a skill up= kiss my furry Vah Shir

[Twistagain]

I'm in the same boat. Master Cultural is still my best bet for tailoring...by far...but wow. I'm looking at 100ish plat per combine to 290. (I know that doesn't sound like a lot...but it is.)

I've been investigating Dwarven Cultural smithing for my GF's cleric. Unless this site's prices on the Brellium bricks/blocks are wrong, she can go to 290 for a cost of 25ish plat per combine. (Granted...she has Piles of Gravel instead of Shissar Scales.)

I was just wondering, is there any rhyme or reason to the costs of the metals/threads across the races? Is it harder drop = cheaper metal/thread? Or is it just seemingly random? I didn't find prices for the Vah Shir metal here, and I haven't investigated it myself, so it might be as cheap. Maybe it's just tailoring that's (again) insane.

[Phantron]

I've been investigating Dwarven Cultural smithing for my GF's cleric. Unless this site's prices on the Brellium bricks/blocks are wrong, she can go to 290 for a cost of 25ish plat per combine. (Granted...she has Piles of Gravel instead of Shissar Scales.)

I take it you have no idea how rare Pile of Gravels are relative to Shissar Scales.

[Ixiola]

Pheles, this might be one of those cases where you'll want to invest in some Tailoring Mastery AAs instead of skilling up farther if what you're looking for is armor rather than the Tailoring Master Title. (I didn't have that option for mine, as there's no such thing as tinkering mastery).

But your success rate is 37% now (assuming you have a geerlok), and you can raise that to 69% with TM3. That's not too shabby of a chance to succeed honestly, and at level 70, I bet it would take you far less time to farm the AAs then all the platinum required to skill to 300.

While the general feeling is that Salvage skill >>>>>>>> tradeskill mastery AAs, this might be a case where you'll want to buck the general view simply to allow yourself to get your armor sometime in the near future. Just a thought.

[Twistagain]

I take it you have no idea how rare Pile of Gravels are relative to Shissar Scales.

I take it then, that you either didn't READ my post or didn't comprehend the meaning of the word "granted". I perfectly understand that my Shissar Scales are AMAZINGLY easier to farm and are far more common....and I am eternally grateful for that. I was just asking whether the cost difference between the bought components was something out of the ordinary in this particular case, or whether the costs per race made any sense whatsoever.

[Phantron]

Then why don't you complain Tae Ew shields allow people to get to 295 smithing for about 5pp so obviously every cultural DoN armor is messed up since they at least require a large brick of cultural armor?

Taking about combines outside the context of component rarity is simply misleading.

[Wyvernwill]

As far as I know, they adjusted the prices of all DoN Cultural metals/spools to be even across all races. Something like 18/53/100? Probably a bit off, but it's close.

I've been working on my master's level tailoring and smithing and all I have to say on them is it is FAR cheaper to do master's/grandmasters stuff if you farm the parts than it is to do MCS. MCS are about a 325pp combine, DoN masters is about 100pp.

[bana-zir]

all I have to say on them is it is FAR cheaper to do master's/grandmasters stuff if you farm the parts than it is to do MCS. MCS are about a 325pp combine, DoN masters is about 100pp.

What you are not considering is the value of the farmed parts. Those parts are worth a considerable amount of money. When you factor in the time to farm the parts, then selling the parts, you see that 325pp a combine is way cheaper for MCS.

[Wyvernwill]

Well, then farm those parts, sell them and do MCS if it's such a big deal. I look at it from the aspect of if I got it while getting exp, it's free while exping, even if it is on poor exp mobs. That's like saying you lost 60k on a MDS drop you personally got for free out of a DoN mission.

If you're so worried about the "implied" cost for farming then, then do MCS and let it go. Heck, at that rate, finish off with inferno scepters because well, the price is almost the same anyway, and in some cases, Inferno Scepters are cheaper too.

The value of an item farmed, to me, is nothing because I intend to use it for other purposes... thats why you are farming in the first place. If people go by the Bazaar prices, yeah, MCS are cheaper. But then again, the bazaar prices are a pretty good reason why I do not buy anything tradeskill related in the bazaar unless I can get it at a more reasonable price.

Oh and if all the drops from MCS were only farmable, I can gaurantee you would be paying a lot more for MCS than DoN. Welcome to price gouging, something NPC vendors don't do.

[Phelis D'Mesticus]

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Well, then farm those parts, sell them and do MCS if it's such a big deal. I look at it from the aspect of if I got it while getting exp, it's free while exping, even if it is on poor exp mobs. That's like saying you lost 60k on a MDS drop you personally got for free out of a DoN mission.

If you're so worried about the "implied" cost for farming then, then do MCS and let it go. Heck, at that rate, finish off with inferno scepters because well, the price is almost the same anyway, and in some cases, Inferno Scepters are cheaper too.

The value of an item farmed, to me, is nothing because I intend to use it for other purposes... thats why you are farming in the first place. If people go by the Bazaar prices, yeah, MCS are cheaper. But then again, the bazaar prices are a pretty good reason why I do not buy anything tradeskill related in the bazaar unless I can get it at a more reasonable price.

Oh and if all the drops from MCS were only farmable, I can gaurantee you would be paying a lot more for MCS than DoN. Welcome to price gouging, something NPC vendors don't do.

If u want to do a relative cost comparison for MCS's, then u need to find another TOTALLY MERCHANT BUYABLE item that trivs at 33x. The only component in a MCS that u cant get directly from a merc are the imbued em's, which u can make or have made for dirt cheap. All other components are buyable in various locations around the game.

If im wrong PLEASE tell me where I buy the Glossy Drake Hides. Im sure there are a few hundred baz traders on my server whod like to know as well.

As far as selling the MCS's and using the money to invest in another skill, you would be hard pressed to sell one of em for more than the 400plat u paid to make it in the first place. Once again if im wrong, please let me know. Ill sell em to u all day for 200pp and be happy about it. Im on The tribunal server and currenly have 480ish of them clogging up my alts. Presumably if I ever start my own guild I can initiate it with 500k guild tribute %-\

[Wyvernwill]

Well, for starters, you twisted what I said backwards. What I said and you quoted me on was:
"Well, then farm those parts, sell them and do MCS if it's such a big deal."

What I was saying is: Farm those "overpriced" items, sell them yourself and then buy parts for MCS and do those combines instead of something that uses "more valuable" farmed items that are being price gouged in Bazaar.

My point is simple... if you farm it, it didn't cost you a thing other than some time hunting, and as far as I have seen, all the farming camps for those items yield some so so exp in addition to a lot of cash drops + the items you are trying to farm. Case in point, farming Pile of Gravel with my alt, I generally get about 1k-3k in gems and VT in addition to 2-5 gravel per hour in PoN. Not to mention about a dozen AA and tradeskill drops for other tradeskills also. Take those gains from the cost of DoN masters and they feel a lot like free combines.

I never said a single thing about selling MCS to buy parts. Also, the math is off on the MCS cost per combine. Each MCS requires:
4 emeralds (3 to Blessed Dust of Tunare) Cost: 56pp (rounded up)
1 Sapphire Cost: 105pp
1 Ruby Cost: 125pp
9 Celestial Essence (about 15pp)
Random stuff Elven Wine, Jar of Acid, Mistletoe (5pp)
Curved Blade Mold 5pp (rounded up)
Hilt Mold (5 Gold)
Pommel Mold (5 Gold)
Total cost per combine: about 312pp

I fairly regularily sell off a lot of Sickles at 300pp each, meaning on a successful combine I lose 12pp. Oh well, I've suffered worse doing Tailoring, Brewing and a bunch of other skills than 12pp per combine. But then again, I get the majority of my business just after ooc'ing their tribute value otherwise they just sit on my trader doing nothing.

What I don't understand is why is everything "Tell me where I can BUY this or that." I don't buy much of anything for tradeskilling, especially from bazaar. I've found things to be a lot easier, less costly and over all better just taking the "hard" way and doing the work for myself. I average 1 don mission about every 2-4 days, yet I have managed to stock pile 6 Glossy Drake Hides, 4 Metallic Drake Scales and 13 Purescale Ore. I think I have done about 25ish missions, mostly in Lavaspinner's Lair trying to get GM Symbol Book done. They aren't the easiest drop in the world to get, but those items are not very rare either.

[Phelis D'Mesticus]

What I don't understand is why is everything "Tell me where I can BUY this or that." I don't buy much of anything for tradeskilling, especially from bazaar. I've found things to be a lot easier, less costly and over all better just taking the "hard" way and doing the work for myself. I average 1 don mission about every 2-4 days, yet I have managed to stock pile 6 Glossy Drake Hides, 4 Metallic Drake Scales and 13 Purescale Ore. I think I have done about 25ish missions, mostly in Lavaspinner's Lair trying to get GM Symbol Book done. They aren't the easiest drop in the world to get, but those items are not very rare either.

The point, if u look at the original thread, is the difference in cost/time/difficulty there is between the skills vs the Trivial for the same item across classes. I can merchant buy the items needed for the Sicles to take the smithing to 300, and it can be done cheaply. Yet to do the same with the Tailoring is both time/cost prohibitive due to the items needed for the combines.

BTW- Markup on the imbued ems is about 15pp each. Bout 25 per on tribunal server. Add in that 45 to the....312 I believe u came up with and factor in failures and u have 400pp min. So my math isnt off, urs is just incomplete.

[Wyvernwill]

BTW- Markup on the imbued ems is about 15pp each. Bout 25 per on tribunal server. Add in that 45 to the....312 I believe u came up with and factor in failures and u have 400pp min. So my math isnt off, urs is just incomplete.

Oh yeah, those have to be bought to instead of being done by one's self. It's not hard nor time consuming to level a druid to 29 to do the imbues, plus it saves a fairly substantial amount of cash.

There is always going to be a cost/time/difficulty differential in tradeskills, there always has been. Brewing/Baking aren't in as high demand as Smithing/Tailoring. Consequentially, they don't make as big of profits, and don't have as high of costs associated. This is yet another reason why I can't wait for sickles to get the axe.

People are screaming bloody murder because tailoring is now difficult compared to all of the other tradeskills. That's a shame, I guess there are going to be a lot more disgruntled people when the trivial changes go live.

Tailoring is time consuming, so is smithing when you farm the items. But neither of them is grossly expensive when you actually do the leg work and farm the items yourself.

The point I am making is this. Smithing and Tailoring provide mid/high end items that are really nice. None of the other tradeskills do that. Quit comparing Tailoring and Smithing to other trades... They are balanced by their overall usefullness in the end.

[Phelis D'Mesticus]

Oh yeah, those have to be bought to instead of being done by one's self. It's not hard nor time consuming to level a druid to 29 to do the imbues, plus it saves a fairly substantial amount of cash.

There is always going to be a cost/time/difficulty differential in tradeskills, there always has been. Brewing/Baking aren't in as high demand as Smithing/Tailoring. Consequentially, they don't make as big of profits, and don't have as high of costs associated. This is yet another reason why I can't wait for sickles to get the axe.

People are screaming bloody murder because tailoring is now difficult compared to all of the other tradeskills. That's a shame, I guess there are going to be a lot more disgruntled people when the trivial changes go live.

Tailoring is time consuming, so is smithing when you farm the items. But neither of them is grossly expensive when you actually do the leg work and farm the items yourself.

The point I am making is this. Smithing and Tailoring provide mid/high end items that are really nice. None of the other tradeskills do that. Quit comparing Tailoring and Smithing to other trades... They are balanced by their overall usefullness in the end.

Well once again u are going off topic. Im not trying to Brew or Bake myself a set of DoN armors, so they really aren't relevent.

The topic, and point is that U can Smith yourself to a point where u can craft your DoN armor far more easily than u can Tailor to that same point.


In addition, you said that you cant wait till sicles get the axe. Do u have your Master in Smithing? If u do, i guess that you didn't make sicles then huh....since ur so adamant on the joy of their being nerfed.

[Lothay]

Thread closed. Baiting and sniping are beyond unwelcome here.